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eggshaped
269439.  Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:35 pm Reply with quote

More linkage between frogs and fucking:

Extracto de rana, or juice of frog, is a drink made from the extract of two to three frogs, blended with honey, malt and other ingredients. It is sold as an aphrodisiac in Peru; sometimes known as 'The Peruvian Viagra'.

link

 
Jenny
269461.  Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:49 pm Reply with quote

Can we talk about frogs without mentioning "les cuisses de grenouilles"?

The French eat about 3-4000 tons of frogs' legs a year, or about 60-80 million frogs. However, this works out as only about 60g per French person, so maybe they are not as popular as people think. Because edible frogs are now a protected species in France, frogs' legs are imported, mainly from Indonesia.

They are not only eaten in France though - they also appear in the cuisine of the southern states of the USA, and in places like China and parts of India.

Frogs' legs have only 75 calories per 100 gr so would work well in a slimming diet. However, you'd have to get your head around the fact that the poor frogs are prepared for the table by being sliced in half (only the thighs are eaten) while still alive, one reason why France and India have both banned the practice.

Barbara Dias Pais, of Protection Mondiale des Animaux de Ferme (PMAF), a French organisation for the worldwide protection of farm animals, says regular campaigns by the group highlight the cruelty of the trade in which frogs are caught, amputated and then left to die.

However, it is not just the issue of cruelty but other environmental issues that have caused countries to take action. Killing frogs creates a huge increase in diseases and also causes money to have to be spent on insecticides, since the frogs would normally keep down the disease-carrying insects. Moreover, because frogs are caught and killed during their reproductive period, killing them for food prevents the frog population from renewing as it should.

Other frogs' legs material -

In the early 20th century, while Escoffier was chef at the Carlton Hotel in London, he avoided the disgust aroused in British breasts by the thought of eating frogs legs by calling them 'cuisses de nymphes aurore', or legs of the dawn nymphs on the menu. Even the Prince of Wales ate them.

http://www.ffcook.com/pages/frenchfrogs.htm
http://www.foodreference.com/html/ffrogslegs.html
http://www.answers.com/topic/frogs-legs?cat=health
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20000610/ai_n14302094

 
Flash
269560.  Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:03 pm Reply with quote

Excellent. I had no idea they ate >60m a year, that's astounding. Do we call French people 'Frogs' because they eat frogs, or because of the alliteration (Fr), or what?

 
suze
269645.  Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:43 pm Reply with quote

Possibly neither, it turns out.

One common theory is that the French are called "frogs" because they eat them - but as Jenny notes above, so do other nationalities. Mind you, of nationalities that the British had much to do with in 1778 when it's first noted, it was mainly the French.

Brewer however thinks it's to do with the ancient heraldic device of France, apparently three toads. It notes that Guillim's Display of Heraldrie (1610) describes the device as "three toads erect".


Incidentally, "frog" had been used as an insult before its use to refer to the French in 1778. The OED has it down as referring to Gog and Magog in c1330, to the Jesuits in 1626, and to the Dutch in 1652. (Some kind of klaxoning could be made of the last, perhaps).



Sources: Brewer (entries "Fleur-de-lis" and "Frog") - which is paraphrased here (with a picture of the frog flag) and here.
OED - partially paralleled at etymonline.

 
Flash
269733.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:36 am Reply with quote

Excellent, again - especially this bit:
Quote:
The illuminati masonic pit beast is the focus of the vial judgements. And both the illuminati and masonry are based upon the ancient egyptian mysteries which point to the triple frog goddess. ...

The Illuminati was founded by a witch and has always been involved in witchcraft. And Masonry is essentially Baal worship or satanism when the layers of symbolism are stripped away. And this end time beast emerged in France.

The three frogs then are a powerful symbol representing the end time 8th beast which emerged from a witches coven and erupted during the French Revolution. And the old witch goddess Hecate is brewing up a witches caldron where the three beasts meet in the New World Order.

Brewer also says that within C18th France the term was used to refer to Parisians, a reference to the fact that Paris was something of a quagmire at the time.

If it's the case that the last French king to use the three-toad badge was Clovis, then the association would have to date back to the 6th Century. The etymonline entry has the earliest citation as 1778, as an abbreviation of frog-eater.

I think (or, rather, opine on the basis of no evidence) that the alliteration must have been influential in giving the term wide currency in Britain, whatever its origin.

 
MatC
269764.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:36 am Reply with quote

Is there are any other nation that we call by an animal name? And do other nations call other nations by animal nicknames?

 
eggshaped
269773.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:08 am Reply with quote

I always thought that the frog thing was a result of the French eating frogs legs, so there's a good couple of gen-igs here; the Dutch thing is great as well. In fact, according to this chat with Jonathon Green, author of the Cassell Dictionary of Slang, the dutch insult originates with the fact that the windmill-owning-clog-wearers inhabited marshland. This kinda backs-up Flash's theory on the Parisian quagmire.

I suppose the reason I believed the frogs-leg fact was that the french supposedly call us rosbifs. According to the above article, the word "rosbif" referred to a way of cooking, so you could have a "rosbif of mutton" for example. I wonder if the use of this term as a nickname was a reaction to the "frog" insult.

More examples of nationalities naming each other after what they eat:

"locust eaters" for Afghans, "salmon crunchers" for Alaskans, "goulash-heads" for Hungarians, "limeys" for the English. Oh, and cheese-eating surrender-monkeys of course.

Hmmm, never heard "goulash-head" before...

 
suze
269779.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:32 am Reply with quote

Flash wrote:
Excellent, again - especially this bit:
Quote:
The illuminati masonic pit beast etc etc


Erm, yes, I think that page may well have been written by a fully paid up member of the bonkers club - but hey, it's got the froggy flag on!

The OED agrees with Jonathon Green that the Dutch were called "frogs" on account of the marshy territory they inhabited, so that bit seems fairly convincing.

Flash's alliterative allusion ought to be allowed - it doesn't appear to be in any of the dictionaries, but it makes a certain amount of sense.


There are plenty of other rather silly nicknames used by one nationality to refer to another - the Racial Slur Database to which Mr Green refers can be found at http://www.rsdb.org/. I just checked it out to see what it says about Canadians, and most of the things claimed are the sort of alleged nicknames that no one actually uses.

For instance, it claims that Québécois are sometimes called "peppers" - because they prefer Pepsi to Coca Cola (this is a strange demographic fact about Québec, and is utterly true) and because they are alleged to be "empty from the neck up", just like a Pepsi bottle. I've never heard it though - if one wishes to be rude about a French Canadian, one calls him a Canuck. (Except in Vancouver, where that term isn't derogatory since it's the name of our hockey team.)

 
eggshaped
269785.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:58 am Reply with quote

Suze, did you see this in the news this week that the word "Canadian" is used as a hidden racial slur to mean black people in the Southern States.

Quote:
Stefan Dollinger, a postdoctoral fellow in linguistics at University of British Columbia and director of the university's Canadian English lab, speculated that the slur reflects a sense of Canadians as the other.


I quite like the fact that the academic description of Mr Dollinger dwarfs the important part of that sentence.

 
eggshaped
269786.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:02 am Reply with quote

F for Foreigners.

(in case it wasn't already obvious to most)

 
Flash
269818.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:58 am Reply with quote

MatC wrote:
Is there are any other nation that we call by an animal name?

Kiwis?

 
suze
269835.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:08 pm Reply with quote

Thanks for that egg - I'd not come across that one. I've heard Americans from the south use "Canadian" as an insult of a different kind though - to refer to what others might call "bleeding heart liberals".

Canada's political climate is broadly comparable to that of western Europe, so Americans consider us very left wing. And indeed, any Canadian who refers to our current Conservative government as "American" is not being complimentary.

Since he's described as postdoctoral, Dr Dollinger, please! (I don't know him - he seems to have arrived at UBC in 2001 which was a bit after my time.)


Kiwis, of course - tho NZers don't object to that one and even use it themselves. Have terms like Wallabies and Springboks ever been used in general parlance, rather than just to describe the sports teams of Australia and South Africa?

 
eggshaped
269839.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:37 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Since he's described as postdoctoral, Dr Dollinger, please! (I don't know him - he seems to have arrived at UBC in 2001 which was a bit after my time.)


My apologies to Dr D. I do get confused as to what to call acedemic types. We had a lot on Museum of Curiosity, so I just ended up calling them all by their first names - makes things a lot more simple.

 
Jenny
269840.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:59 pm Reply with quote

MatC wrote:
Is there are any other nation that we call by an animal name? And do other nations call other nations by animal nicknames?


Not exactly a nation, but Sikhs all have 'Singh', which means 'lion', as part of their name.

Wikipedia wrote:
The Sikhs adopted Singh as a surname in 1699, as per the wish of Guru Gobind Singh, the tenth Sikh Guru.[9] In the Spring of 1699, on the day of Baisakhi, Guru Gobind Singh (originally named Guru Gobind Rai), made it mandatory for all Sikh males to append the name suffix Singh after their name. Singh is used as a middle name or as a surname (see naming patterns section) by approximately 10 million adherents of Sikhism.[10]

9. A History of the Sikh People (1469-1988) by Dr. Gopal Singh Isbn: 8170231396
10. Dr. McLeod, Head of Sikh Studies, Department of South Asian Studies, McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada


The female equivalent for Sikhs is Kaur, which means lioness, or princess.

 
MatC
269875.  Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:08 pm Reply with quote

"Though boys throw stones at frogs in sport, the frogs do not die in sport, but in earnest. "

-Bion
Greek bucolic poet (c.100 BC)

 

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