View previous topic | View next topic

ff (formerly the Stubbins ffirth thread)

Page 2 of 3
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

258180.  Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:17 am Reply with quote

Car manufacturers Jensen produced a car called the FF (Ferguson Formula). The Jensen FF was the world's first production car with all wheel drive, anti-lock brakes and traction control.

More than you ever wanted to know about Jensens here.

If Jeremy Clarkson was on the panel this would be a good one to include.

258181.  Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:19 am Reply with quote

In Ireland FF is Fianna Fail:

258235.  Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:33 am Reply with quote

(Fianna Fáil.) Which when translated means something like "Warriors of Destiny".

258251.  Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:49 am Reply with quote

A useful tool for this type of thing is, which lists Wikipedia articles as you type. Entering "ff" will find articles where one of the words in the title begins "ff".

258271.  Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:09 am Reply with quote

Well that's gone into the bookmarks folder, for starters. Thanks for pointing it out.

The Triple fff brewery makes a beer called Pressed Rat and Warthog - the champion mild of Britain 2002, apparently.

258278.  Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:15 am Reply with quote

One of those things that one feels one has always known at some subconscious level:
Fflewddur Fflam, son of Godo, is a cantrev lord in the fictional country of Prydain, in Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain. He is referred to as a King, but it is made clear that he is a very minor king of a tiny kingdom at best, much less important than the High King who rules Prydain.

Actually I'm clutching at straws a bit here. So far, I'm disappointed by the ff idea.

258451.  Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:50 pm Reply with quote

Thomas The Tank Engine runs on the branch line to ffarquhar, which meets the main line at Knapford Junction.

261501.  Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:53 pm Reply with quote

Flash wrote:
The Triple fff brewery makes a beer called Pressed Rat and Warthog - the champion mild of Britain 2002, apparently.

I really feel beer deserves to be taken more seriously.

263365.  Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:11 am Reply with quote

The Birds of Trinidad and Tobago was written by ornithologist Richard ffrench.

826911.  Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:41 pm Reply with quote

The origin of English double small f surnames goes back to the late middle ages it is certainly not a 19th Century transcription error (and yes, I know Brewers Phrase and Fable says this is the case, but it is wrong).

If you think on it a second you'll see just how preposterous this notion is. For this to happened just once it would mean that someone looking up their ancestry, in every example they found of distant ancestors and their extended families in every generation, their family name's initial letter would have had to have used the script (the medieval equivalent of a font) that could be mistaken for a doubled f.

Quite unlikely, now multiply that unlikelyness by every family who uses a double small f and it's easy to see why the claims of the initial double ff being either a transcription error or, as Brewer's puts it "an affectation", are unsustainable.

Double ff surnames originated in the 1400s and Parish records show have been in continuous use since.

How they came into existence is wrapped up with the story of capitalization. There was an increase in literacy in the 15th Century, and people were aware that important passages of text began with a large letter known as a majuscule or versal, so when their names were entered in lists (as witnesses or jurors in court documents for example) people began to insist the scribe put their name on a line to itself beginning with a majuscule, or did so themselves when signatures were needed.

However, at that time there was no appreciable difference between majuscule and minuscule "f"s so persons whose name began with f doubled it as their way initialising their names: examples of forenames such as "ffrancis" can be found in this era.

This practise eventually formalised itself into the two alphabets, capital and lower case, that we use today and capitalisation expanded to all proper names and sentence initial letters (In German orthography nouns are capitalised too).

When the modern capital F was introduced along with Italic writing in the Elizabethan era many of the "ff" families retained their double initial small f; presumably to retain continuity with records such as patents of nobility, land deeds, court rolls, and qualifications etc.

"Reading Tudor and Stuart Handwriting" by L Munby, S Hobbs, & A Crosby [ISBN 1-86077-237-4] page 11, paragraph 6.
"Palaeography for Family and Local Historians" by Hilary Marshall,
[ISBN 978-1-86077-651-9], page 27, paragraph 2.

Spud McLaren
826952.  Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:53 pm Reply with quote

Now that's more like it. I'm never a big believer in theories that depend on single obscure instances as their points of origin.

826971.  Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:58 pm Reply with quote

glad to be of service :)

826981.  Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:20 pm Reply with quote

And interesting too. I hope you stick around, Barbara - I feel your talents may well come in useful when we start working on the J series.

826982.  Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:22 pm Reply with quote

Ditto wot Jenny said! I'm enjoying your posts very much Barbara-B! :)

826985.  Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:26 pm Reply with quote

ff in Welsh is the sound 'f' whereas f signifies a 'v'.

The Tudors were Welsh - did it perhaps become fashionable to use ff in Tudor times?


Page 2 of 3
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are GMT - 5 Hours

Display posts from previous:   

Search Search Forums

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group