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Mirrors

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exnihilo
251472.  Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:25 pm Reply with quote

I'm keen now to know what the definitive answer is on animals recognising themselves in mirrors. QI has told me elephants are the only ones which can, and the Book of Animal Ignorance repeats that claim (p. 67), but also makes it for dolphins (p. 56). I'm only up to elephant so far, but perhaps the same will be said for giraffes, sheep and zebras?

 
iano200
251478.  Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:39 pm Reply with quote

according to wikipedia, the following all pass the "Mirror Test",
Quote:
non-human great apes ( chimpanzees, orangutans and gorillas), Bottlenose dolphins, elephants,rats, octopuses, rhesus monkeys and humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

 
exnihilo
251506.  Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:53 pm Reply with quote

It was certainly my understanding that it wasn't limited to the elephant.

 
smiley_face
251583.  Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:30 pm Reply with quote

I find it hard to believe that a rat passes the mirror test, it has to be said. And does an octopus even have a conscious mind?

[/skeptic]

 
exnihilo
251587.  Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:47 pm Reply with quote

Octopuses (octopodes if you like) have shown themselves to be remarkably clever beasts, adaptable, capable of learning, and quite adept at problem solving, so why not?

 
smiley_face
251589.  Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:49 pm Reply with quote

Ah ok. I shall have to read up on the matter in that case - they sound quite interesting.

 
Sadurian Mike
289763.  Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:16 pm Reply with quote

smiley_face wrote:
Ah ok. I shall have to read up on the matter in that case - they sound quite interesting.

It's okay not knowing about octopodes and mirrors.

It doesn't reflect badly on anyone.

 
Green
390169.  Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:30 am Reply with quote

smiley_face wrote:
I find it hard to believe that a rat passes the mirror test, it has to be said. And does an octopus even have a conscious mind?

[/skeptic]


I'll second exnihilo on the octopuses. They're very intelligent creatures. Good at solving puzzles, navigating mazes and can recognise the individual humans that work with them (http://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/06/octopus.html).

Rats are clever too, although I don't know about mirrors... I wonder how they go about determining that the animal recognises itself in a mirror? I have a rat and a mirror but not the knowledge about the rules of the experiment XD

 
gruff5
390258.  Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:19 pm Reply with quote

Octopi can be taught a trick eg getting the lid off a jam jar, but they will have forgotten how to do the next day and have to be taught all over again. I would have thought this long term memory problem might also mean they wouldn't have a sense-of-self?

 
gruff5
390270.  Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:35 pm Reply with quote

...

 
Tas
390312.  Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:04 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Octopi can be taught a trick eg getting the lid off a jam jar, but they will have forgotten how to do the next day and have to be taught all over again.


Source, please? I am curious about this. Has this been shown one way or the other?

:-)

Tas

 
Lumpo31
390352.  Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:35 am Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8cf7tPoN5o&NR=1
Doesn't show the Octopus forgetting how to do it, rather it works it out by itself...plus some other cool things.

 
Davini994
390398.  Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:40 am Reply with quote

Lumpo31 wrote:

Doesn't show the Octopus forgetting how to do it

:)

 
Lumpo31
390484.  Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:55 am Reply with quote

Davini994 wrote:
Lumpo31 wrote:

Doesn't show the Octopus forgetting how to do it

:)
David!!

 
gruff5
390578.  Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:48 am Reply with quote

Tas wrote:
Quote:
Octopi can be taught a trick eg getting the lid off a jam jar, but they will have forgotten how to do the next day and have to be taught all over again.


Source, please? I am curious about this. Has this been shown one way or the other?

:-)

Tas
The source is our very own Stephen Fry on QI TV programme and my memory. I don't think my memory is in error on this, but can't vouch for Mr Fry's veracity (it was a follow-on comment of his, rather than an official question)

 

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