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Two errors in the book of GeneralIgnorance

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wible
179835.  Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:51 am Reply with quote

The book states that there is no Welsh word for brown. Whilst most Welsh words for colours are vague most Welsh speakers would understand 'llwyd' to mean brown.

Also, the item on nuts and the danger of pistachio nuts says that mariners could die of carbon dioxide poisoning. Sorry, carbon dioxide is not toxic, it is carbon MONoxide that would prove fatal.

 
smiley_face
179837.  Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:16 am Reply with quote

wible wrote:
The book states that there is no Welsh word for brown. Whilst most Welsh words for colours are vague most Welsh speakers would understand 'llwyd' to mean brown.

I don't know squat about Welsh, so won't pretend to - I'm sure someone else will be able to answer your question though.

wible wrote:
Also, the item on nuts and the danger of pistachio nuts says that mariners could die of carbon dioxide poisoning. Sorry, carbon dioxide is not toxic, it is carbon MONoxide that would prove fatal.

While carbon monoxide is poisonous, carbon dioxide is also fatal in high enough quantities. The carbon dioxide content of fresh air varies from 0.03% to 0.06%, and the air we exhale contains about 4.5% carbon dioxide.

When air with a CO2 concentration of 4-5% is inhaled, it presents an immediate risk to animals (including humans).

Wikipedia wrote:
The current threshold limit value (TLV) or maximum level that is considered safe for healthy adults for an 8-hour work day is 0.5% (5000 ppm). The maximum safe level for infants, children, the elderly and individuals with cardio-pulmonary health issues would be significantly less.

 
Celebaelin
179888.  Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:51 am Reply with quote

smiley_face pm'ed me and asked me if I could comment so here's how I see it

Elevated CO2 levels will cause respiratory acidosis, increased blood pressure and hyperventilation which, when the atmosphere you are breathing is already high in CO2, will not rectify the high concentration of HCO3- in the blood. This all adds up to a fair amount of physiological distress but I too am unsure that the effects are of themselves life threatening.

Wiki does specifically mention CO2 toxicity and undoubtedly it has a physiological effect but loss of life from exposure to CO2 is, I think, due to the asphyxiant properties ie the fact that there just isn't enough O2 rather than the effects of the CO2 itself. Carbon Monoxide on the other hand irreversably binds with hemoglobin with an affinity roughly 200 times that of oxygen and so its presence can lead to death by asphyxiation even if there is plenty of oxygen around. Wiki tells me that 667ppm is enough to reduce the blood's O2 carrying capacity by half and is potentially fatal.


Last edited by Celebaelin on Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total

 
Celebaelin
179890.  Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:00 am Reply with quote

Oh, and llwyd (hence Lloyd btw) is grey isn't it?

 
samivel
179891.  Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:41 am Reply with quote

Hmm, according to this site, llwyd can mean both brown and grey.
Welsh is one of those languages which divides up the spectrum of colours in a different way to English, and so is particularly vulnerable to this sort of confusion. 'Glas' is today the Welsh word for blue, but was formerly used to describe other colours such as green and grey. (For example, the Welsh for grass is glaswellt, 'blue straw'.)
And, according to Gaazy (post 8653 and post 8706), our native Welsh-speaking poster, Welsh does indeed lack a specific word for brown in some circumstances.

 
albionist
223507.  Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:07 pm Reply with quote

[quote="wible"]The book states that there is no Welsh word for brown. Whilst most Welsh words for colours are vague most Welsh speakers would understand 'llwyd' to mean brown.

I speak Welsh Fluently and Llwyd means grey, and to my knowledge no welsh speaker would understand llwyd to mean brown. Also with regard to there being no word for brown, the welsh have a the word "brown" (obviously taken from english) pronounced Brr and then Own as in the english own. The old welsh word for brown was gwinau although now i believe it is purely used for auburn. Hope that helps.

 
albionist
223509.  Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:08 pm Reply with quote

samivel wrote:
'Glas' is today the Welsh word for blue, but was formerly used to describe other colours such as green and grey. (For example, the Welsh for grass is glaswellt, 'blue straw'.)


Glaswellt it quite an archeic word and very rarely used, gwair is the word you would hear and use now.

 
fkjg2q36r
249311.  Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:55 pm Reply with quote

Celebaelin wrote:
Carbon Monoxide on the other hand irreversably binds with hemoglobin with an affinity roughly 200 times that of oxygen and so its presence can lead to death by asphyxiation even if there is plenty of oxygen around. Wiki tells me that 667ppm is enough to reduce the blood's O2 carrying capacity by half and is potentially fatal.


It's not an irreversible bond. There is no such chemical thing. Wikipedia is also not a credible source, since even you can edit it.

Coal miners used to refer to carbon dioxide as "choke damp". I'm sure some still do. Carbon dioxide is not "poisonous". It can only kill through asphyxiation. It kills you by virtue of the fact that it is not breathable air. Many things, e.g. water, are also not breathable air. That doesn't make them poisonous, per se.

Carbon monoxide, which coal miners would call "white damp", is actually poisonous. As in, chemotoxic. It chemically alters your hemoglobin, causing a condition called carboxyhemoglobinemia. If you're British, add some superfluous Latin diphthongs to those words. Breathing CO it at 2% saturation, you will immediately collapse into a ragdoll heap halfway through your first breath. You will then proceed to die, in the span of 5 minutes. At the same saturation, carbon dioxide would merely make you feel mildly sick.

When you hear coal miner stories about men walking down a tunnel and inexplicably dropping dead, that's neither of these. Choke damp doesn't act that fast, and white damp is lighter than air. Those stories are talking about stink damp, aka hydrogen sulfide. At comparable saturation, it kills you even deader than carbon monoxide would. It's stink damp that the canaries were used to test for.

 
Davini994
249377.  Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:28 am Reply with quote

fkjg2q36r wrote:
Wikipedia is also not a credible source, since even you can edit it.

Even Celebaelin? How poor it must be then.

 
samivel
249416.  Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:55 am Reply with quote

[quote="fkjg2q36r"]
Celebaelin wrote:
it kills you even deader than carbon monoxide would.


I didn't know that there were gradations of deadness.

 

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