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What Came first the chicken or the egg??

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what came first the chicken or the egg?
chicken
28%
 28%  [ 2 ]
egg
71%
 71%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 7

jonog
233214.  Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:10 pm Reply with quote

Right, I have to work as a group and present on a debate of our time, I have been forced to go with this one any info would be useful

 
Ameena
233222.  Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:31 pm Reply with quote

Well, since the chicken-as-we-know-it evolved from a line of not-quite-chickens-as-we-know-them, the first chicken therefore came from an egg laid by a not-quite-chicken.
So the egg came first :).

 
96aelw
233225.  Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:41 pm Reply with quote

We've done this before, I'm sure. It's really not a conundrum at all once you'e defined your terms, though. It all depends what you mean by egg [/Professor Joad].

If 'egg' just means, well, egg, then obviously it came first; dinosaurs laid them.

'Egg' must, then, mean 'chicken egg'. But that admits two meanings. Either it is an egg laid by a chicken, in which case the chicken, by definition, came first, or it means an egg containing a chicken, in which case the egg, by definition, came first. Either way, once you have decidede on your definition, you have the answer without needing to think about it at all. Ta da.

 
Mulvil
234049.  Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:52 am Reply with quote

96aelw wrote:
We've done this before, I'm sure. It's really not a conundrum at all once you'e defined your terms, though. It all depends what you mean by egg [/Professor Joad].

If 'egg' just means, well, egg, then obviously it came first; dinosaurs laid them.

'Egg' must, then, mean 'chicken egg'. But that admits two meanings. Either it is an egg laid by a chicken, in which case the chicken, by definition, came first, or it means an egg containing a chicken, in which case the egg, by definition, came first. Either way, once you have decidede on your definition, you have the answer without needing to think about it at all. Ta da.



Superbly said and exactly what I would have said. Fantastically correct!

I think of it as an egg containing a chicken so to me the egg most definately came first but equally if you want to define it as an egg laid by a chicken then the chicken had to come first.

In your debate-y thingy you sould highlight that it totally depends upon definition and that no definitive answer can be reached without first defining the question fully. And also that upon definiton that the answer is exceedingly simple to come to. (That impress the socks right off of everbody in attendance).

Let us know what side you take and how you get on.

 
Blackpool Rule
270991.  Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:40 pm Reply with quote

i think the chicken came first because they evolved from microbes

 
CB27
271062.  Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:17 pm Reply with quote

My chicken came from my microwave

 
jonog
275044.  Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:08 am Reply with quote

Phew what a response, this kind of went along with what I was saying to my group the whole time, and after a long debate which I won (thanks to this info) we went for egg and were able to suprrise everyone with the the answer being fish!
Thanks again

 
HakunaMatata
409023.  Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:37 pm Reply with quote

I think that according to the theory of evolution the chicken must have come first. If, by chance, the universe, along with all animals and plants, was created by an explosion; the explosion must have been big enough to smash a delicate eggshell.

 
bobwilson
409026.  Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:45 pm Reply with quote

Define first please

 
CB27
409027.  Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:50 pm Reply with quote

Unfortunately that's a wrong understanding of what evolution means.

Firstly, evolution doesn't mean you have to believe in the big bang, they're two separate theories.

Secondly, the big bang theory only accounts for existence of matter and the beginning of the universe.

Thirdly, evolution would mean that the egg came first because evolution takes place from mutations in the genes which occur during the development of the embryo.

 
bobwilson
409031.  Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:00 pm Reply with quote

Not necessarily CB27 (your thirdly).

Evolution does take place from mutations in the genes which occur during development of the embryo as you say. However, the development of the egg could have occurred by:

Begin with child organism beginning life as distinct group of cells which must break off from parent at some point.

This group of cells might break off in the original formula after it has become a viable individual in its' own right (kind of like a lava lamp).

However, all the time the child organism is attached to the parent organism it has a detrimental effect on the survival of the parent.

Therefore parent organism cuts child organism loose early - in the form of an egg.

That's a conceptual outline of chicken first/egg second. I can supply details but only if it's on a postcard and written in sanskrit.

 
CB27
409041.  Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:29 pm Reply with quote

Hehe, you lost me on how that means chicken first, I doubt the sanskrit will make it clearer.

 
bobwilson
409059.  Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:56 pm Reply with quote

you'd be surprised at how much clearer it is in sanskrit cb

 
HakunaMatata
409172.  Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:09 am Reply with quote

As CB27 put, evolution occurs through the mutation of genes during the development of the embryos.
However, it seems likely that these embryos existed from one original source. As Stephen said in an episode of QI, all men are realted to one original man dubbed Adam, ditto women with Eve.

Quote:
Begin with child organism beginning life as distinct group of cells which must break off from parent at some point.


For these embryos to exist in the first place they must have come from somewhere, therefore there could have been one original chicken, the mother of the species.

 
AndyMcH
409186.  Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:28 am Reply with quote

I would suggest that the first ever chicken would have had to come from 2 "not-quite-chicken" parents. It would have become a chicken through mutations as the embryo was developing.

The chicken would have come from the egg so i would hazard that the egg came first.

 

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