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Flash
312430.  Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:58 am Reply with quote

There's a Far Side cartoon which depicts the Lone Ranger in his dotage reading through an Ojibwe-English dictionary and discovering that it mean's "a horse's ass".

"One who peeks" is capable of being interpreted in a less favourable way than "Trusty Scout", mind you.

 
suze
312440.  Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:24 am Reply with quote

Tis true, and a key element of that word is the prefix giimoo-, which means "in a secret manner".

But it seems unlikely to mean a man who secretly watches the female Anishinaabe getting undressed, simply because nakedness wasn't a taboo in traditional Anishinaabe society.

 
MatC
312441.  Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:25 am Reply with quote

After my Mythcon on the subject, many letters were received by um-Fortean Times (which reminds me - does anyone know why “um” became a ubiquitous prefix in mock-American Indian speech?).

I’ll try to summarise the correspondence, for completeness um-sake.

The first Euros encountered by Apaches were Spanish. The Apaches adopted Spanish as a lingua franca in their dealings with whites. Thus “quien no sabe” (no-one knows) is “an obvious epithet for a man who wished to conceal his real name.” Jay Silverheels (or Harold, as we now know him!) was fluent in Spanish; he first used quien no sabe - say it quickly and it becomes kemo sabe - as an ad lib, and the director liked it.

Or:
Tonto is Spanish for silly, and “el qui no save” is “the man who doesn't know.”

Or:
Iron Eyes Cody, actor and friend of Silverheels, says in his autobiography that Tonto is Spanish for crazy or idiot, and was used by American Indians to describe any Indian who attempts to work within the white man’s system. Kimsabe was a portmanteau word from the Pueblo “kima” (meaning hello) and the Spanish “sabe” meaning understand. (Hello-understand??)

Or:
Que mas sabe is Spanish for “who knows more,” which contrasts with Tonto meaning stupid.

Or:
This from a Californian who had studied Ojibwe/Chippewa at college under a teacher who had grown up on the same Canadian reservation as Harold Silverheels, and had known him socially in younger days. He said that the pronunciation was more like “Giimo Saabe,” and it meant “one who looks through sneakily.” This might be taken as a reference to his mask.

So my money is on suze’s explanation.

 
Flash
312454.  Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:45 am Reply with quote

Quote:
Jay Silverheels (or Harold, as we now know him!) was fluent in Spanish; he first used quien no sabe - say it quickly and it becomes kemo sabe - as an ad lib, and the director liked it.

That bit only makes sense if Harold played Tonto in the radio series, which I don't think he did.

 
Flash
312458.  Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:49 am Reply with quote

Fran Striker was the most astoundingly prolific writer. I can't find the article on this at the moment, but his output was really quite astonishing.

 
suze
312476.  Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:17 am Reply with quote

Flash wrote:
That bit only makes sense if Harold played Tonto in the radio series, which I don't think he did.


No he didn't. Tonto on radio was read by a guy called John Todd, who was a Detroit rep actor of Irish origin. (He read some of the bit parts as well, this being radio.)

Harold Silverheels was from Brantford ON, which is best known for being the city where Alexander Graham Bell didn't invent the telephone.

On the face of it, it's not especially likely that either of them spoke a great deal of Spanish.

 
MatC
328800.  Fri May 02, 2008 5:04 am Reply with quote

Current issue of FT (FT236, p21) features what is thought to be the world’s oldest cartoon - arguably, I suppose, the world’s oldest “moving picture”.

It’s a 5,200-year-old Iranian bowl. It was found 30 years ago by Italian archaeologists but, incredibly, it has only just been noticed that if the bowl were spun rapidly “and viewed through a slit” (I can feel a Jo Brand joke coming on here ...) the images of a goat which decorate the bowl’s circumference will produce an animation effect, as in a zoetrope. In this ancient cartoon, the goat leaps to get some leaves from a tree.

Link: Firsts

 
eggshaped
349613.  Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:47 am Reply with quote

Whoever's doing the film/fame show, I don't know if you were going to do the Cheese Mite censorship question, but it seems that the film in question is being shown at the Science Museum:

You can see the movie here:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7423847.stm

It's probably worth someone heading up there to have a look.

 
Flash
349787.  Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:08 pm Reply with quote

Well found. It evidently wasn't censored, though. Here's the text:
Quote:
In 1903, at the Alhambra Music Hall in London's Leicester Square - now an Odeon - the public got the chance to see something truly disgusting.

Less than a decade into the cinema age, a one-minute film of mites crawling in a piece of cheese, filmed down a microscope was enough to provoke gasps and laughter from a stunned audience.

The film, made by Charles Urban and Francis Martin Duncan, marked the birth of the popular science documentary with startling imagery.

According to Urban, the mites were "crawling and creeping about in all directions, looking like great uncanny crabs, bristling with long spiny hairs and legs".

"Cheese Mites was the first scientific film made for public consumption," Dr Boon says. "These were early days for cinema. The audience was highly attuned to going after exciting new entertainments.

"They enjoyed seeing something rather revolting."

The film was unlikely to have pleased anybody in the dairy industry, but it did have a lasting effect of sales of cheap microscopes, which would often include packets of mites as a test sample.

 
eggshaped
350273.  Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:30 am Reply with quote

That said, Mitch is 100% certain that it was censored. Can't remember what his source was, but I spoke to him about it after a meeting and he was unswayable. You may want to ask him.

 
eggshaped
355073.  Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:17 am Reply with quote

Director Alan Smithee was born in 1967, the same year as he directed his first film, Death of a Gunfighter. Critics said: "Smithee's direction keeps the action taut and he draws convincing portrayals from the supporting cast."

Since then, Smithee has directed many many films, some say more than any other name. The reason is that Alan Smithee is the name assumed when directors want to disown a film.

The Directors' Guild generally doesn't allow disownment, but in exceptional cases (usually when a film was cut heavily against their wishes) they allow it, and the alias is adopted.

The guild thought about naming the person "smith" or "smithe", but added an extra "e" because it made it very unlikely that a real director would come along with the same name. It is also an anagram of "The Alias Man", though it is likely that this is a co-incidence.

Smithee's films include:
"Let's Get Harry"
"Solar Crisis"
"The Shrimp on the Barbie"
"Shim Sham Shimmy"
and
"A River Made to Drown In"

Why should you not bother watching a film directed by Alan Smithee?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000647/bio

 
Jenny
355088.  Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:43 am Reply with quote

Just because the director wants to disown it doesn't necessarily mean it was a lousy movie, does it?

 
Flash
355857.  Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:22 pm Reply with quote

Smithee was in the first series. Actually, if anything this is a Gen Ig because I believe the DGA has changed the name because Smithee became so widely-known to the public. The name they use now is Thomas Lee.

 
eggshaped
449280.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:49 am Reply with quote

A little more on the Wilhelm Scream. Sure enough, it can be found in a number of Computer Games, including Grand Theft Auto IV.

List here

 
CEL-Kali
775616.  Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:15 pm Reply with quote

Jenny wrote:
Just because the director wants to disown it doesn't necessarily mean it was a lousy movie, does it?


That is one reason. Another reason could be that the movie didn't turn out how the director wanted it to, and a load of business was introduced to the film versus the creativity of the director. So they don't believe they made it, but a company did, therefore they would disown it. Somewhat related, this is how Joel Hodgson left Mystery Science Theater 3000. He had no creative control over The Movie, and it left him depressed. Had to see a psychiatrist for years.

It also applies to the writers. I know Clive Barker disowned a movie 'based' off of his story Rawhead Rex (Books of Blood, V III). It had nothing to do with the story and the being didn't even resemble his creation. In fact, that's what lead to Barker directing his own movies, since almost all of the adaptations were terrible. That's how Hellraiser (based on The Hellbound Heart), Candyman, and Nightbreed (based on Cabal) were created. However, he did not direct Midnight Meat Train (Books of Blood V I), Books of Blood (prologue to the rest of the stories in Books of Blood), and Dread (Books of Blood V II).

Wow. How many times am I going to write Books of Blood?

 

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