View previous topic | View next topic

Enemies and Warfare

Page 2 of 2
Goto page Previous  1, 2

mikeyfone
189777.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:42 am Reply with quote

Those who want to read 450 year old books should look at EEBO (Early English Books Online).

I think you need to subscribe though, unless you are at a university.

 
suze
189810.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:13 am Reply with quote

I'm with Flash re Wiki - start there, and then go where it sends you. I tell my students the same too (post 143572 refers).

Sadly mikeyfone is right about EEBO - it's a subscription service, and individuals cannot subscribe, much less see the material there without subscribing. Public libraries are able to subscribe though as well as universities, but sadly few outside North America have done so (unfortunately it's not cheap, and as usual the British subscription rate is rather more than the North American one).

There's plenty of old stuff on Project Gutenberg though, and that's available to anyone. (Insert tedious but necessary comment about US copyright working differently from British copyright; Gutenberg only warrants that the titles it offers are not in copyright in the USA.)

 
Curious Danny
189849.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:24 am Reply with quote

Bugger

 
tetsabb
189859.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:39 am Reply with quote

On the subject of the thread, I came across this Tom Waits song the other evening (sung by Joan Baez).

Quote:
I got your letter
Today
An' I miss you oh so much here

I can't wait
To see you all
And I'm counting the days dear

I still believe that there's gold
At the end of the World

An' I'll come home
To Illinois
On the day after tomorrow

It is so hard
And it's cold here
And I'm tired of taking orders

And I miss old Rockford town
Up by the Wisconsin border

What I miss you won't believe
Shovellin' snow,and rakin' leaves

And my plane will touch down
On the day after tomorrow

I close my eyes
Every night
And I dream
That I can hold you

They fill us full of lies
Everyone buys
'Bout what it means
To be a soldier

I still don't know how I'm s'posed to feel
'Bout all the blood that's been spilled

Will God on his throne
Get me back home
On the day after tomorrow?

You can't deny
The other side
Don't wanna die
Any more than we do

What I'm tryin' to say
Is, don't they pray
To the same God
That we do?

Tell me
How does God choose?
Whose prayers does he refuse?

Who turns the wheel
Who throws the dice
On the day after tomorrow?

I am not fighting
For justice
I am not fighting
For freedom

I am fighting
For my life
And another day in the World here

I just do what I've been told
We're just the gravel on the road

And only the lucky
Ones come home
On the day after tomorrow

And the summer
It too will fade
And with it brings
The winter's frost dear

And I know
We too are made
Of all the things
That we have lost here

I'll be twenty - one today
I been savin' all my pay

And my plane
Will touch down
On the day after tomorrow

And my plane
It will touch down
On the day after tomorrow


It certainly made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

 
Celebaelin
189869.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:59 am Reply with quote

The white boar of Richard III was a famous symbol, Richard himself was probably lopsided through many years of swordsmanship with a medieval knight's broadsword and/or axe; he very nearly killed Henry Tudor at Bosworth in person, Henry's retinue managed to stand in Richard's way and escort their charge to safety but Henry's standard bearer was decapitated by Richard in a single blow from horseback in the early stages of that encounter (a backhand I rather suspect). He was an accomplished warrior and an astute political animal given the general bloody unpleasantness of the period. He wasn't a nice man however.
Quote:
The cat, the rat, and Lovell the dog, rule all England under the hog

The allusion is explained in quot. 1586.

The Catte the Ratte And Louell our dogge Rulyth all Englande under a hogge. The whiche was ment that Catisby Ratclyffe And the Lord Louell Ruled the lande under the kynge.
[1516 R. Fabyan New Chronicles of England & France viii. 219V]
[Richard III executed] a poore gentleman called Collingborne [in 1484], for making a small rime of three of his‥ councellors,‥lord Louell, sir Richard Ratcliffe‥and sir William Catesbie. ‥The Cat, the Rat, and Louell our dog, Rule all England vnder an hog. Meaning by the hog, the‥wild boare, which was the Kings cognisance [coat of arms].
[1586 R. Holinshed Chronicles III. 746]
‘His name‥was Lovel.’ ‘What! the cat, the rat, and Lovel our dog? Was he descended from King Richard's favourite?’
[1816 Scott Antiquary ii.]
The cat, the rat and Lovell, the dog, Rule all England under the hog. ‥The hog was Richard the Third.
[1973 A. Christie Postern of Fate i. ii.]

source


Last edited by Celebaelin on Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

 
mikeyfone
189924.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:31 pm Reply with quote

Richard III may not have been a nice man, but most medieval kings weren't by modern standards.

Henry V (the real one) had an apprenticeship in Wales and at Shrewsbury before Agincourt, and had been hit in the face by an arrow. Thousands died in the Welsh Revolt, and Henry's order to massacre the French prisoners at Agincourt remains contravertial.

 
mckeonj
189933.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:10 pm Reply with quote

Another aspect of enmity is how, in my life and in history (which rather curiously run parallel for a short course), former enemies become friends, and vice versa.
Between 1934 and the present day, I have cycled through:
Germany, Japan, Italy, Russia, China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Egypt, Argentina, various bits of Africa, Iran, Iraq.....
Poor Britannia has a headache from it all.

 
tetsabb
189934.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:14 pm Reply with quote

I believe that Portugal is about the only European country with which Blighty has not had a war.
Probably because they tended to be opposed to Spain, on the principle of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc'

 
Efros
189941.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:47 pm Reply with quote

mikeyfone wrote:


I've lost count how many people have asked 'Why don't the police just shoot the gun out of his hand?' Answer - because the bullet could ricochet anywhere, including into his head.


And your problem with that is? Seriously though extremely difficult to achieve although there is a video kicking about on the web somewhere of just such a feat.

found it
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1864006824603606472&q=shoot+gun+out+of+hand&total=362&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

 
Curious Danny
189942.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:48 pm Reply with quote

Portugal was an unlikely ally in the Napoleonic wars.
The only other country not ruled by the Frenchman in a big hat, it was one of the first formal alliances between European Powers.

 
mikeyfone
189948.  Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:08 pm Reply with quote

Efros wrote:
mikeyfone wrote:


I've lost count how many people have asked 'Why don't the police just shoot the gun out of his hand?' Answer - because the bullet could ricochet anywhere, including into his head.


And your problem with that is? Seriously though extremely difficult to achieve although there is a video kicking about on the web somewhere of just such a feat.


My problem is that, while it can be done, it is far too risky to try on every occasion. Yes, on occasion it has happened, but the nature of ballistics is far too unpredictable. The only British soldier to be killed trying to escape from Colditz was shot in the arm. The bullet ricocheted, going through both his lungs and his heart.

 
dr.bob
190055.  Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:03 am Reply with quote

mckeonj wrote:
Between 1934 and the present day, I have cycled through:
Germany, Japan, Italy, Russia, China, North Korea, North Vietnam, Egypt, Argentina, various bits of Africa, Iran, Iraq.....


You forgot our real enemies: The French!

Seriously, though, it just goes to show that people all over the world are generally nice and get on just fine. It's those nutters who seize the reigns of power who keep having childish arguments, which results in thousands of people dying on the battlefield.

When I was a nipper, I used to ask my Grandad about the war. I was hoping he'd tell me lots of exciting tales of shooting Nazis like I read about in comics. Instead he was posted with the Royal Engineers, well behind the front lines repairing the infrastructure during the final push through to Berlin, so he told me lots of stories of ordinary German citizens who were thoroughly sick of the war and very friendly and welcoming to the British forces as they came through their towns.

 
JonathanF
192137.  Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:33 pm Reply with quote

mikeyfone wrote:
Efros wrote:
mikeyfone wrote:


I've lost count how many people have asked 'Why don't the police just shoot the gun out of his hand?' Answer - because the bullet could ricochet anywhere, including into his head.


And your problem with that is? Seriously though extremely difficult to achieve although there is a video kicking about on the web somewhere of just such a feat.


My problem is that, while it can be done, it is far too risky to try on every occasion. Yes, on occasion it has happened, but the nature of ballistics is far too unpredictable. The only British soldier to be killed trying to escape from Colditz was shot in the arm. The bullet ricocheted, going through both his lungs and his heart.


Yes, I believe the officer in question got a stern talking to for trying that, even though it came off OK. It has less to do with the risk of ricochet, and more to do with the whole ethos of "if you shoot, you shoot to kill". If you aim to wound or disarm, there's no telling what sort of threat the subject might still represent. You put officers and civilians at risk if you do things like that as a matter of course.

Hell of a shot though.

 
Eric the Underwriter
206261.  Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:54 am Reply with quote

With regards to portugal.

The alliance go's back to the 13th century, making them out oldest international chum. Ok it was a little spat with the spanish war of succsion but they come back!

 
Celebaelin
971789.  Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:40 am Reply with quote

Celebaelin wrote:
The white boar of Richard III was a famous symbol, Richard himself was probably lopsided through many years of swordsmanship with a medieval knight's broadsword and/or axe; he very nearly killed Henry Tudor at Bosworth in person, Henry's retinue managed to stand in Richard's way and escort their charge to safety but Henry's standard bearer was decapitated by Richard in a single blow from horseback in the early stages of that encounter (a backhand I rather suspect). He was an accomplished warrior and an astute political animal given the general bloody unpleasantness of the period. He wasn't a nice man however.
Quote:
The cat, the rat, and Lovell the dog, rule all England under the hog

The allusion is explained in quot. 1586.

The Catte the Ratte And Louell our dogge Rulyth all Englande under a hogge. The whiche was ment that Catisby Ratclyffe And the Lord Louell Ruled the lande under the kynge.
[1516 R. Fabyan New Chronicles of England & France viii. 219V]
[Richard III executed] a poore gentleman called Collingborne [in 1484], for making a small rime of three of his‥ councellors,‥lord Louell, sir Richard Ratcliffe‥and sir William Catesbie. ‥The Cat, the Rat, and Louell our dog, Rule all England vnder an hog. Meaning by the hog, the‥wild boare, which was the Kings cognisance [coat of arms].
[1586 R. Holinshed Chronicles III. 746]
‘His name‥was Lovel.’ ‘What! the cat, the rat, and Lovel our dog? Was he descended from King Richard's favourite?’
[1816 Scott Antiquary ii.]
The cat, the rat and Lovell, the dog, Rule all England under the hog. ‥The hog was Richard the Third.
[1973 A. Christie Postern of Fate i. ii.]

source


And the body found under that car park in Leicester WAS that of Richard III so we can say he DID have a curvature of the spine but NOT a withered arm. The spinal curvature was due to scoliosis which developed during Richard's adolescence.

Quote:
The man would've had so-called idiopathic adolescent-onset scoliosis, meaning the cause is unclear though the individual would have developed the disorder after age 10; the curvature would've put pressure on the man's heart and lungs and could've caused pain

http://www.livescience.com/26815-bones-king-richard-iii-found.html
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/LIVE-UPDATES-Richard-III-DNA-results-announced/story-18049665-detail/story.html#axzz2KftY5v3D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-21282241

The remarks about slender build do, in my mind, call into question the story of his nearly decisive attack on Henry Tudor at Bosworth but I suppose we must accept the account unless medical opinion directly addresses the question and tells us this would not have been possible.

 

Page 2 of 2
Goto page Previous  1, 2

All times are GMT - 5 Hours


Display posts from previous:   

Search Search Forums

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group