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301664.  Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:57 pm Reply with quote

As the term Nazi was brought up on another thread, I thought I'd put some information on Fascism which is the ideology Nazis subscribed to.

Most people know that Fascism is about authoritarianism, though some of the other terms often associated are nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, corporatism, populism, collectivism and autocracy.

It was the Italians who started using the word Fascism, using it to name the political movement under Benito Mussolini. The main difference between Fascism as seen in Italy and Nazism is that while the original was state orientated, the latter was racially orientated. The most striking example of this difference is the constant use of "Volk" in Nazism, seemingly placing both people and the state as serving the race, whereas Italian Fascism saw the people as serving the state.

The roots of the word come from the Roman Fasces (Fascis meaning bundle), this was a bundle of birch rods tied together with a red ribbon into a cylinder, and including an axe amongst the rods. This was a symbol of authority.

Interestingly enough, the Fasces is seen in a number of unexpected places in many countries, including US politics (obviously the symbol put in place before Fascism became an ideology). Examples include:

The US National Guard and is included on their insignia
Two fasces that appear on either side of the flag of the US in the House of Representatives, representing the power of the House and the country.
The Mace of the House of Representatives, designed to resemble fasces, consists of thirteen ebony rods bound together in the same fashion as the fasces, topped by a silver eagle on a globe.
Fasces ring the base of the Statue of Freedom atop the Capitol building.

Many European Passports and Police insignia include Fasces.

Ian Dunn
301703.  Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:54 pm Reply with quote

There is already a thread covering this on the forum.

301751.  Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:00 pm Reply with quote

Cheers for that Ian, if a mod wishes to merge the two, no probs from me. I think the other thread is more about certain individuals, but hey...

301820.  Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:33 pm Reply with quote

What's wrong with fascism?

301837.  Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:49 pm Reply with quote

What's wrong with any political ideal?

The problem, if you excuse the expression, is always in the execution of that ideal. Human nature being what it is some types of politics are unsuitable and Fascism is certainly one of them.

301841.  Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:56 pm Reply with quote

Fascism unsuitable? It cetainly suited a lot of people then, and stll does now.
I don't advocate fascism, but I'd still like to know what is wrong with it?

301854.  Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:04 pm Reply with quote

That is a very good point. The theory in itself is absolutely fine. People are happy, thus they support the leader and the state, and it is only when the leader gets a bit carried away and starts introducing insane laws does it become something more than Fascism.

Reminds me of the film Bananas by Woody Allen, when the rebel guy becomes dictator of the country, and starts spurting completely ridiculous laws.

301902.  Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:52 pm Reply with quote

mckeonj wrote:
I don't advocate fascism, but I'd still like to know what is wrong with it?

Blimey mckeonj, I was sure you were taking the mick there, but reading wiki it seems I need to do more reading, once again.

Mussolini wrote:
Anti-individualistic, the fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only insofar as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal will of man as a historic entity.... The fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value....

If we are looking for a flaw that is purely philosophical, rather than merely practical, I think there is one obvious one: humanity is multifarious. There is no monoculture anywhere; I do not have the same desires as you, the same as Shabina in Bangladesh.

If it's only the state that matters, then anything other than one template must be removed,. Apart from the method used to do this, it means that you have no specialisation, no creativity. This precludes genius or art, or expression at all.

I'm talking from the hip a bit there, and I'm obviously no expert, but you get the idea of what I am attempting to convey I hope.

I'm not convinced there are any circumstances, pressure, time, etc, that would *ever* result in everyone following the one template anyway. There would always be a torrent of people falling away, if you can't express yourself. Hard to be sure though isn't it?

301968.  Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:32 am Reply with quote

Ahh, but you see Fascism does work in some ways, you must have fascism in the armed forces for them to work, we just call it militarism (or whatever the word is, it's too early).

301998.  Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:01 am Reply with quote

True enough.

Sadurian Mike
302256.  Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:16 am Reply with quote

It's an old and true fact of life that a domestic peacetime government style does not work in time of war, and vice-versa.

302304.  Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:34 pm Reply with quote

vice versa doesn't work? We must turn the manifesto on it's head then!

302466.  Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:54 pm Reply with quote

It seems that cats have established a meow-fascist dictatorship over the human race; and are using goldfish and budgies to monitor non-feline households.

302513.  Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:38 pm Reply with quote

Katzen uber alles!!!

Warning, that site might be in bad taste for some so if mods aren't happy with it or anyone takes serious objection I'm willing to kill the link. I personally find it really funny.

302556.  Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:54 pm Reply with quote

What's wrong with fascism?

It probably depends on whose definition of fascism you are using. There may be forms of fascism that don't require racism, etc. its is just that all the fascist governments that we have seen happen to be genocidal. So, maybe you can't say absolutely that fascism isn't inherently racist. (although that seems disingenuous)

But from
and from memory of what I have read, violence is a defining characteristic.

Violent revolution may be justified in some circumstances (though that is debatable) but my understanding is that violence is a required part of fascism, that peaceful fascism is a tautolgy.

I would say that is one thing wrong with fascism.


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