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Flash
162940.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:15 am Reply with quote

We need a thread for this.

John's idea for the Xmas Special is to make it an Easter Special. This would be fine, but I wonder whether the Victorian Special might be a good alternative, because the Victorian Christmas idea is so pervasive, and this would make better sense of our suddenly going Victorian in the middle of the E Series.

Anyway, to log some trains of thought:

Victorian Etiquette
Victorian Erotica
Victorian Entertainers (music hall - Little Tich?)
Victoria's Secret (surely ...)
Victorian Explorers (Livingstone, I presume?)
The Great Exhibition
Places called Victoria (Australia, Canada, etc)
Victoria Falls
Victoria and Albert (Mitch's bedroom door remote control)
Victoria and the use of chloroform
Victorian Gen Ig (covering piano legs, we are not amused, opium dens, Victoria Cross not made from Russian cannons captured in Crimea)

Other snippets? The thing about gulls being a novelty in London for example.

And of course we need an elephant in the room: Jumbo, I guess.

 
Flash
162942.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:20 am Reply with quote

Victoria came to the throne in 1837, and the adjective "Victorian" was in use by 1839. But its first citation in the sense of "prudish and outdated" is from 1934.

etymonline

 
Bunter
162943.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:43 am Reply with quote

This question is going into the DVD but could be used in this show:

What did the real Mad Hatter invent?

a) An alarm clock which threw you out of bed b) A clockwork tooth-brush c) A pair of wheeled slippers d) A hat which combs your hair

a)10 b)0 c)0 d)0

It is thought that Carroll based the Mad Hatter on Theophilus Carter, an upholsterer from Oxford. Carter was known as the Mad Hatter because of his resemblance to the then Prime Minister, Gladstone.

Carter designed ‘The Alarm Clock Bed’ exhibited at the Great Exhibition in 1851, a contraption which woke its occupant up by tipping them out onto the floor at a set time.

 
MatC
163023.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:53 pm Reply with quote

Bunter wrote:

Carter designed ‘The Alarm Clock Bed’ exhibited at the Great Exhibition in 1851, a contraption which woke its occupant up by tipping them out onto the floor at a set time.


Simpler just to get married, surely.

 
MatC
163024.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:54 pm Reply with quote

Some Victoriana from the vaults:

MYTHCONCEPTIONS: Streets of dung by Mat Coward

THE MYTH: A 19th century Member of Parliament predicted that, given the rate of growth of traffic, London would be six feet deep in horse manure by 1910.

THE "TRUTH": The details vary with almost every telling: the doom-merchant is a politician, scientist, city planner, or journalist; the doomed town is London, or various cities in the USA, or a particular famous street such as the Strand; the predicted date of the catastrophe ranges from the turn of the century to 1950; and the depth of the dung goes from knee-level upwards. The underlying message, though, is consistent: forecasting through extrapolation is risky, because it can’t take account of technological revolutions. By implication, all predictions of disaster should be treated as mere alarmism; American conservatives, sceptical about the dangers of global warming and pollution, are especially fond of the dung parable. One detail is invariably missing from this story: the name of the failed seer. If the prophesy had ever really been made, someone would surely have uncovered its author by now.

SOURCES: _The “Quote...Unquote” Newsletter_, July 2005;
www.guardian.co.uk/worldsummit2002/story/0,12264,784991,00.html; and numerous other websites.

DISCLAIMER: If you can name the foolish Victorian soothsayer, or failing that, say when the tale was invented, please wade through the muck to FT’s letters page.

 
MatC
163025.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:56 pm Reply with quote

And likewise ...

MYTHCONCEPTIONS: Victoria and the lesbians by Mat Coward

THE MYTH: Lesbianism was never made illegal in Britain because when Queen Victoria was shown the proposed legislation she refused to sign it, as she wouldn’t believe that lesbians existed: “Women do not do such things.” In other versions of the story, government ministers struck out all references to women in the Act, because they couldn’t think of a way of explaining matters to the dear old queen.

THE "TRUTH": The idea that Victoria refused to sign the Labouchere Amendment to the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885, until it had been de-lesbianised, is easily dealt with: the British monarch in the late 19th century did not have the power to overrule parliament - any attempt to do so would have triggered a political earthquake. The myth apparently started in Wellington, New Zealand, in 1977, to explain why a demonstration for lesbian equality centred on a statue of Vicky. Labouchere’s true motives for criminalizing male homosexuality are still disputed; what seems certain is that banning female homosexuality never crossed his mind. Some historians suggest that the male establishment avoided legislating on lesbianism, for fear of drawing women’s attention to its existence.

SOURCES: _Inventing the Victorians_ by Matthew Sweet (Faber, 2001);
www.mikedash.com/extras_victoria.htm; www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-19315,00.html

DISCLAIMER: This must be one of the most widely-accepted and repeated beliefs this column has ever covered; if you can come up with a contemporary source to support it, then please get your sensible shoes over to the letters column and tell all.

 
Flash
163029.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:19 pm Reply with quote

I bet the reason he didn't want to forbid lesbianism was that he thought it was a jolly good idea.

Good stuff, Mat - excellent ready-made fare, as delicious as a Vesta Paella.

We corresponded once about how clever it is that you can get from one side of London to the other just as quickly now as you could in Victorian days when the population was so much lower - did you ever track down the stats on that?

 
Flash
163068.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:58 pm Reply with quote

Justin, I don't understand this:

Quote:
Carter was known as the Mad Hatter because of his resemblance to the then Prime Minister, Gladstone.


What have I missed?

 
Bunter
163080.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:49 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
It is thought that Carroll based his character on Theophilus Carter, an upholsterer from Oxford, who was known as the Mad Hatter, because of his resemblance Gladstone (the then Prime Minister). He enjoyed the comparison and wore a top hat to increase the resemblance.




Quote:
Another interesting point made by Gardner has to do with the appearance of the Hatter in Tenniel's drawings in Carroll's book. He rejects what he says was a common belief at the time that the Hatter was a burlesque of Prime Minister Gladstone. Rather, he says, "There is good reason to believe that Tenniel adopted a suggestion of Carroll's that he draw the Hatter to resemble one Theophilus Carter, a furniture dealer near Oxford..." who was known in the area as the Mad Hatter. He was so designed because he always wore a top hat and partly because of his eccentric ideas and behavior. He invented an alarm clock bed which awakened the sleeper by tossing him to the floor and which was exhibited at the Crystal Palace in 1851. This may have had something to do with the Hatter's preoccupation with time and with his concern over the dormouse's somnolence.

 
Bunter
163082.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:59 pm Reply with quote

Still unclear: Gladstone wore a famous hat that Carter copied:



 
Flash
163083.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:11 pm Reply with quote

Oh, OK. I thought everyone wore a hat like that one in those days.

(on edit: surely that isn't a picture of Gladstone, is it?)


Last edited by Flash on Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

 
Flash
163085.  Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:28 pm Reply with quote

Disraeli:


Palmerston (and Cobden, deploring some Chinese people):


Abraham Lincoln:


etc

 
eggshaped
163115.  Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:34 am Reply with quote

Flash, I think it was me originally who posted that fact - frustratingly my original post has been deleted now, along with a source (if I posted one).

I'm not familiar with Gladstone though, so the quote about his hat must've been in the original source.

 
Bunter
163123.  Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:54 am Reply with quote

Quote:
Flash, I think it was me originally who posted that fact - frustratingly my original post has been deleted now, along with a source (if I posted one).


Not deleted young sirrah (nothing as been deleted from the DVD stuff)...merely moved from DVD basket one into DVD basket two.

Your exact post was as follows:

Quote:
Theophilus Carter is the most commonly accepted inspiration for Lewis Carroll’s Mad Hatter, which of these did he invent?

Multiple Choice:
a) An alarm clock which threw you out of bed
b) A clockwork tooth-brushing machine
c) A pair of slippers with wheels on the soles
d) A hat which combed the wearer’s hair


Answer: a) It is thought that Carroll based his character on Theophilus Carter, an upholsterer from Oxford, who was known as the Mad Hatter, because of his resemblance Gladstone (the then Prime Minister). He enjoyed the comparison and wore a top hat to increase the resemblance.

Carter was the designer of ‘The Alarm Clock Bed’ exhibited at the Great Exhibition in 1851, a bed which woke its occupant up by tipping them out onto the floor at a set time.


Sorry for forgetting the original author. x

 
eggshaped
163125.  Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:55 am Reply with quote

So I didn't have a source in the original post? How naughty.

 

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