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BondiTram
674455.  Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:10 am Reply with quote

Zebra57 wrote:
Southwell in Nottinghamshire functions as a cathedral for the C of E. The City of Nottingham has no C of E cathedral. Southwell is not a city.

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I note that you said that Southwell, where I went to school, 'functions' as a cathedral so I won't pick you up on the fact that it is a Minster, not a Cathedral.
However, I've forgotten what the difference is between a minster and a cathedral.
Southwell has a bishop and a provost but I doubt if that helps.
When I was there in the 50s the bishop was reputed by the boys to have had 'his throat shot away in the war' because he spoke with a particularly metallique tone. The provost had very big feet and a booming voice. Unless his feet were also hollow I'm not sure if these facts are connected.

 
96aelw
674468.  Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:38 am Reply with quote

No, I'm afraid that Southwell Minster not only functions as a cathedral, it actually is one as well (as its website will tell you); being a minster and being a cathedral are not mutually exclusive.

A cathedral is defined as being a church which contains a cathedra, which is a diocesan bishop's throne. 'Minster' has a rather vaguer definition; with reference to the Saxon period, it usually means the principal church of a particular area, which may have been a monastic or quasi monastic foundation, but these days it basically means "any church which has the word 'Minster' in its name". Its perfectly possible for a church to be both a cathedral and a minster, like Southwell or York, or for it to be a minster only, like Beverley.

 
96aelw
674539.  Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:09 am Reply with quote

Incidentally, while Southwell still has a bishop, it no longer has a provost. It used to be that the 'vicar', as it were, of the older cathedrals was the Dean, while in those churches which had become cathedrals in the 19th and 20th centuries, the equivalent fellow bore the title of Provost. But it seems that, since 2000, all C of E cathedrals have Deans, and cathedral Provosts are no more.

Yet more incidentally, I've not managed to identify your booming, big footed Provost of yore, but the bishop in question must, I think, have been the Right Reverend Frank Barry, who was Bishop of Southwell from 1941 until 1964. I've found no indication of what may or may not have happened to his throat, but he served as a military chaplain in WWI, and was awarded the DSO.

 
suze
674559.  Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:46 am Reply with quote

Zebra57 wrote:
Except that when I was last in Rochester all the street names were written with City of Rochester on them.


In the historic part of town, yes a lot of the street signs do indeed say "City of Rochester" (or "City of Rochester-upon-Medway" if they were erected between 1979 and 1998). You don't normally replace street signs just for the sake of it, but as such time as they need to be replaced the new ones will just be plain (as they are and always have been in the residential parts of town).

When the C-o-R-u-M and the Borough of Gillingham merged in 1998 to form what is now Medway, the city status was lost - and as noted, the new council didn't notice for four years. At least, it says that it didn't; not everyone believes this.

It emerged that, when preparations were being made for the creation of Medway, the former C-o-R-u-M was told by central government what would need to be done to preserve city status - it would be necessary to appoint people called Charter Trustees. And, to quote a report commissioned later by Medway Council, "a conscious decision was made by the former Rochester upon Medway City Council not to proceed to make the appointment of Charter Trustees". Some local politicians have since tried to deny this.

Utter, utter, incompetence. Or else gross dereliction of duty by the members of the old council.

 
BondiTram
674650.  Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:22 pm Reply with quote

96aelw wrote:
Incidentally, while Southwell still has a bishop, it no longer has a provost. It used to be that the 'vicar', as it were, of the older cathedrals was the Dean, while in those churches which had become cathedrals in the 19th and 20th centuries, the equivalent fellow bore the title of Provost. But it seems that, since 2000, all C of E cathedrals have Deans, and cathedral Provosts are no more.

Yet more incidentally, I've not managed to identify your booming, big footed Provost of yore, but the bishop in question must, I think, have been the Right Reverend Frank Barry, who was Bishop of Southwell from 1941 until 1964. I've found no indication of what may or may not have happened to his throat, but he served as a military chaplain in WWI, and was awarded the DSO.


Well I'm sorry the Provost is no more but strangely the name of the distinctive Bishop rings no bells but I do remember the Provost. He was the (Right?) Reverend H.C.L. Heywood.
I was there between September 1954 and Christmas 1959.


Last edited by BondiTram on Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total

 
Zebra57
674867.  Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:45 pm Reply with quote

The QI fact about the minster or cathedral debate is that if like Southwell the building houses the bishop's chair it still retains the title minster although cathedral is a higher status establishment.

York is an archdiocese of which in the C of E there are two but still retains the title minster. The formal title of York Minster is The Cathedral and Metropolitical Church of St Peter in York. The title "Minster" is given to churches established in the Anglo Saxon period as missionary teaching churches, and today is an honorific title.

 
96aelw
674898.  Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:11 am Reply with quote

Although 'Minster' isn't always retained; it depends on the minster in question. Ripon Minster is almost invariably known as Ripon Cathedral these days

 
BondiTram
674919.  Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:57 am Reply with quote

There is no Wiki bio of the Very Rev. Heywood but many references to him on Google including one which places him as Provost in Southwell as early as June 1949.

 
96aelw
674928.  Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:19 am Reply with quote

I looked him up in Crockford's; he was Provost, if I recall aright, from 1945 until 1969.

 

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