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Sadurian Mike
888196.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:37 pm Reply with quote

Willie wrote:
How is territorial rights to waters off it's coast an 'extra goody'?

Because they are not automatic. The new map and what was to be handed over to the new Scottish government would have to be negotiated.

 
Sadurian Mike
888197.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:38 pm Reply with quote

Willie wrote:
As they guy has not made on single argument that has any validity, has not bothered to link to any reports himself and his entire argument stems from nothing more than jingoistic hyperbole I really don't see what business it is of yours how I answer his pathetic trolling.

You are the one making the assertion to be proven, not him.

As for 'what business' it is of mine, I am a member of the forum that you are debating on. Your argument is in the public domain.

 
Sadurian Mike
888198.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:41 pm Reply with quote

Willie wrote:
We are not in the 16th century any more, we don't need a fucking war to sort out any independence questions and the theory that might is right is better left to primary school playground bullies than negotiations of territory.

You don't follow current events then?

Willie wrote:
England has zero claim to the vast majority of the waters off of Scotland if Scotland becomes independent by any measure and that includes international treaties that the UK signed up to decades ago.

They have a very good claim. They are currently part of the UK. They would remain part of the UK unless handed over.

 
Willie
888202.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:48 pm Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:
Willie wrote:
As they guy has not made on single argument that has any validity, has not bothered to link to any reports himself and his entire argument stems from nothing more than jingoistic hyperbole I really don't see what business it is of yours how I answer his pathetic trolling.

You are the one making the assertion to be proven, not him.

As for 'what business' it is of mine, I am a member of the forum that you are debating on. Your argument is in the public domain.


Absolute rot, he is the one that made assertions that I answered, I gave him the name of the yearly governmental report that showed his made up hyperbole to be nonsense. At no time has he even attempted to give ant proof of his 'arguments' all he has done is post rot and jump on anyone who disagrees with him (not just in this thread).

 
Willie
888203.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:51 pm Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:
Willie wrote:
We are not in the 16th century any more, we don't need a fucking war to sort out any independence questions and the theory that might is right is better left to primary school playground bullies than negotiations of territory.

You don't follow current events then?

Willie wrote:
England has zero claim to the vast majority of the waters off of Scotland if Scotland becomes independent by any measure and that includes international treaties that the UK signed up to decades ago.

They have a very good claim. They are currently part of the UK. They would remain part of the UK unless handed over.


They are only part of the UK due to their proximity to Scotland (this is an internationally recognised method of working out fishing and mineral rights and the UK has signed up to the method), not England, once Scotland was independent the UK would have no claim to the waters.

 
Willie
888204.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:53 pm Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:
Willie wrote:
How is territorial rights to waters off it's coast an 'extra goody'?

Because they are not automatic. The new map and what was to be handed over to the new Scottish government would have to be negotiated.


The only negotiation would be over areas where there is a territorial proximity dispute, a very small amount of the actual area that involves exactly one oil field.

 
Sadurian Mike
888208.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:09 pm Reply with quote

Willie wrote:
Absolute rot, he is the one that made assertions that I answered, I gave him the name of the yearly governmental report that showed his made up hyperbole to be nonsense.

You asserted:
Willie wrote:
I must admit I am a bit confused as to what these 'duties' of being part of the UK you seem to think we are not doing. We pay our taxes (net contributors, unlike large parts of England), we join in the defence of the UK in both the form of tax and personnel, we contribute quite considerably to the economy of the UK.

You did not provide any proof. When asked for a cite, you instead said that your readers should look for their own evidence. I don't know how supported argument is done where you usually hang out, but here we try to support the arguments we present.

 
Sadurian Mike
888209.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:10 pm Reply with quote

Willie wrote:
They are only part of the UK due to their proximity to Scotland (this is an internationally recognised method of working out fishing and mineral rights and the UK has signed up to the method), not England, once Scotland was independent the UK would have no claim to the waters.

Willie wrote:
The only negotiation would be over areas where there is a territorial proximity dispute, a very small amount of the actual area that involves exactly one oil field.


You are again assuming that the newly independent Scotland would have exactly the same borders and territories as it currently enjoys under the UK. This may not be the case.

 
Willie
888215.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:18 pm Reply with quote

You are right, Berwick might decide that they want to be part of Scotland again, hell Newcastle might as well.

Meanwhile in non fairy tale land...

 
Willie
888217.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:20 pm Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:
Willie wrote:
Absolute rot, he is the one that made assertions that I answered, I gave him the name of the yearly governmental report that showed his made up hyperbole to be nonsense.

You asserted:
Willie wrote:
I must admit I am a bit confused as to what these 'duties' of being part of the UK you seem to think we are not doing. We pay our taxes (net contributors, unlike large parts of England), we join in the defence of the UK in both the form of tax and personnel, we contribute quite considerably to the economy of the UK.

You did not provide any proof. When asked for a cite, you instead said that your readers should look for their own evidence. I don't know how supported argument is done where you usually hang out, but here we try to support the arguments we present.


I did provide a citation, I gave the name of the yearly report where the information can be found. I believe that is what is know as a citation. I also told him when the next full version of the report will be published. I did not at any time say he should look for his own evidence. What I did not do was hold the guy's hand and take him to the report, I believe you don't actually have to do that for a citation to be a citation.

 
Sadurian Mike
888226.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:26 pm Reply with quote

Willie wrote:
You are right, Berwick might decide that they want to be part of Scotland again, hell Newcastle might as well.

Meanwhile in non fairy tale land...

You really don't follow history or current affairs, do you?

Ever heard of a place called Pakistan? It was part of India before India became independent.

 
Sadurian Mike
888230.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:30 pm Reply with quote

Willie wrote:
What I did not do was hold the guy's hand and take him to the report, I believe you don't actually have to do that for a citation to be a citation.

Well, you just carry on making assertions then. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously or to take your assertions seriously. We get a lot of people making wild and unsupported claims here. Linking directly to a respected source makes the assertion into a supported argument.

You don't need to do so to post here, but you should be prepared to take any consequential disbelief and casual dismissal of your claims as well.

 
Willie
888239.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:35 pm Reply with quote

You are seriously suggesting that areas of Scotland might decide to split off and become completely separate states?

And I thought saying Berwick might decide to rejoin Scotland was about as fairy tale as this would get.

The idea that there is a serious territorial dispute over the vast majority of North Sea oil fields has about as much validity as the wonderfully laughable idea that some right wing Americans are coming up with at the moment that the USA owns Wrangel Island and neighboring Herald Island and that Obama is trying to give them away to Russia.

 
Sadurian Mike
888243.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:40 pm Reply with quote

Willie wrote:
You are seriously suggesting that areas of Scotland might decide to split off and become completely separate states?

What I am suggesting is that post-independence Scotland may not have the same borders as Scotland currently has. Which is the same thing as I have been suggesting for quite some time.

 
Willie
888244.  Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:40 pm Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:
Willie wrote:
What I did not do was hold the guy's hand and take him to the report, I believe you don't actually have to do that for a citation to be a citation.

Well, you just carry on making assertions then. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously or to take your assertions seriously. We get a lot of people making wild and unsupported claims here. Linking directly to a respected source makes the assertion into a supported argument.

You don't need to do so to post here, but you should be prepared to take any consequential disbelief and casual dismissal of your claims as well.


Oh for fuck's sake I have given you the name of the yearly governmental reports that support the assertions I made, if you can''t cut and paste the name into a google search text box that is your problem, not mine. If you write a book that contains citations you don't have to change the nappies of those that read the book and hold their hand while you take them to the publisher of any citations you give in the book. The idiot I was rebutting has never even given as much as an attmept to back up his laughable theories with anything and yet it is me that you get all huffy about.

 

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