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rewboss
832845.  Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:17 pm Reply with quote

Sadurian Mike wrote:
the socialist government of 1918 assumed that the king had abdicated.


It was a reasonable assumption. The Republic was declared in 1918, and the king was declared deposed. It was a strangely unbloody affair: the king was walking in the park and was told of his fate by passers-by. He returned to the palace to find all the servants and guards gone, and fled to Austria. He later issued the Anif Declaration, in which he stated he was unable to continue his rule and relieved his soldiers of their oath of allegiance to him.

Quote:
Pro-royalists insist that Bavaria is still a kingdom


There are those who say the status quo of the pre-war years is still valid. This would be a bit difficult to implement, though, as the borders of the Kingdom of Bavaria don't quite coincide with the borders of modern Bavaria. In particular, the entire Electoral Palatinate, now part of the state of Rhineland-Palatinate (Rheinland-Pfalz in German), belonged to the Kingdom. It's not possible to rewind Bavaria back to, say, 1819, without also rewinding most of southern Germany with it, which would be a constitutional nightmare.

There are very, very few royalists in Bavaria. And I'm not sure those that exist realistically expect the restoration of the monarchy any decade now.

 
Zebra57
832892.  Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:44 pm Reply with quote

The "Royal Family" have clearly accepted the modern model of Germany.
Rupprecht who died on 2 August 1955 was styled as King but when he was succeded by his son Albrecht, as the head of the House of Wittelsbach ,he adopted the title Duke of Bavaria, as did his son Franz upon the death of his father in 1996.

A post on the Bavarian Soviet Republic in the countries section links in with the thread.

 
rewboss
832925.  Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:40 am Reply with quote

Here's a true story which illustrates German bureacracy at its finest; it's a long story and I need to set it up, so bear with me.

I live in a small village in a small valley in the extreme northwest of Bavaria. The border with Hesse passes along a ridge of hills just behind the village, except at one point where a narrow tongue of Hesse juts out and meets the main road out of the valley. The historical reason is there was a small fort which, in the 16th century, had passed to the County of Hanau.

The upshot of this was that for about half a kilometre, the main road out passed through Hessian territory, but was actually inaccessible from the rest of Hesse.

This gave rise to some anomalies. The local football club complained they'd never been able to play a home game because although the clubhouse was in Bavaria, the playing field was in Hesse (and yes, this was very important for them). The road is a State road, meaning Bavaria is responsible for its maintenance except for the short bit which is Hesse's responsibility.

More seriously, though, if there was an accident or other incident on that stretch of road, it technically fell into the jurisdiction of the Hessian emergency services, which had a round trip of about 15 miles to get there. And to make matters worse, it's a notorious accident blackspot.

An interim solution was found, involving complex negotiations and the signing of agreements, and the emergency services in Bavaria were permitted to attend accidents, and the Bavarian police permitted to patrol that section.

There were still anomalies, though. A minor accident was dealt with by the Bavarian police. If alcohol was involved, it had to be dealt with by the Hessian police. If a driver was caught going up to 19km/h over the speed limit, the fine was payable to the Bavarian police; if a driver was caught going faster than that, the Hessian courts would take over.

Simply moving the border isn't as simple as it sounds. For years, officials and politicians discussed the exact terms of a proposed correction to the border which would make everyone's lives easier. Simply annexing a chunk of Hesse wasn't an option: they had to find a piece of land that Bavaria could give up to Hesse, as a land swap.

Finally, an agreement was hammered out, everyone was happy... except the owner of a schnaps distillery. The proposed land swap would mean that his distillery, hitherto in Hesse, would pass to Bavaria. This would be a huge problem for him, because although his stills conformed to Hessian safety regulations, they didn't conform to Bavarian regulations. So he did a very clever thing: he registered his distillery with the Hessian authorities as a place of residence.

According to the law, land swaps of this kind must not involve any territory that includes residential properties. Basically, this meant that the authorities had to spend more years redrawing the border, and the owner of the distillery, fulfilling a vow he'd made, built a little chapel on the premises.

Finally, after decades of wrangling, the new border was drawn up and made official on 1st July this year. The distillery is still in Hesse, and for a short distance, the perimeter fence forms part of the border with Bavaria.

Here's a map: the old border is in purple, the new border in blue.

 
samivel
832983.  Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:43 am Reply with quote

I just love the image my brain throws up of the Hessian police.

 
rewboss
832984.  Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:50 am Reply with quote

samivel wrote:
I just love the image my brain throws up of the Hessian police.


Ha, yes! :D

Hessian cloth is so named because it once formed part of the uniform worn by soldiers from Hesse -- the famed Hessians of the American War of Independence.

 
Efros
832985.  Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:50 am Reply with quote

Reminds me of the Drawing of the Border meeting in Milligan's Puckoon.

 
rewboss
832988.  Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:56 am Reply with quote

Efros wrote:
Reminds me of the Drawing of the Border meeting in Milligan's Puckoon.


It might as well be.

See that railway line at the bottom left corner, where it almost touches the old border? It's the subject of a local joke:

One day, the train derails at exactly that spot. With the whole circus of police and ambulance going on, the local TV news interviews the driver.

"Why did the train derail?"

"Well, a Hessian ran out onto the track right in front of me."

"Why didn't you just run him over?"

"That was my plan, but he ran off the track again so I had to derail the train -- and I still couldn't hit him."

 
AlmondFacialBar
888930.  Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:43 pm Reply with quote

rewboss wrote:
Here's a true story which illustrates German bureacracy at its finest; it's a long story and I need to set it up, so bear with me.

I live in a small village in a small valley in the extreme northwest of Bavaria. The border with Hesse passes along a ridge of hills just behind the village, except at one point where a narrow tongue of Hesse juts out and meets the main road out of the valley. The historical reason is there was a small fort which, in the 16th century, had passed to the County of Hanau.

The upshot of this was that for about half a kilometre, the main road out passed through Hessian territory, but was actually inaccessible from the rest of Hesse.

This gave rise to some anomalies. The local football club complained they'd never been able to play a home game because although the clubhouse was in Bavaria, the playing field was in Hesse (and yes, this was very important for them). The road is a State road, meaning Bavaria is responsible for its maintenance except for the short bit which is Hesse's responsibility.

More seriously, though, if there was an accident or other incident on that stretch of road, it technically fell into the jurisdiction of the Hessian emergency services, which had a round trip of about 15 miles to get there. And to make matters worse, it's a notorious accident blackspot.

An interim solution was found, involving complex negotiations and the signing of agreements, and the emergency services in Bavaria were permitted to attend accidents, and the Bavarian police permitted to patrol that section.

There were still anomalies, though. A minor accident was dealt with by the Bavarian police. If alcohol was involved, it had to be dealt with by the Hessian police. If a driver was caught going up to 19km/h over the speed limit, the fine was payable to the Bavarian police; if a driver was caught going faster than that, the Hessian courts would take over.

Simply moving the border isn't as simple as it sounds. For years, officials and politicians discussed the exact terms of a proposed correction to the border which would make everyone's lives easier. Simply annexing a chunk of Hesse wasn't an option: they had to find a piece of land that Bavaria could give up to Hesse, as a land swap.

Finally, an agreement was hammered out, everyone was happy... except the owner of a schnaps distillery. The proposed land swap would mean that his distillery, hitherto in Hesse, would pass to Bavaria. This would be a huge problem for him, because although his stills conformed to Hessian safety regulations, they didn't conform to Bavarian regulations. So he did a very clever thing: he registered his distillery with the Hessian authorities as a place of residence.

According to the law, land swaps of this kind must not involve any territory that includes residential properties. Basically, this meant that the authorities had to spend more years redrawing the border, and the owner of the distillery, fulfilling a vow he'd made, built a little chapel on the premises.

Finally, after decades of wrangling, the new border was drawn up and made official on 1st July this year. The distillery is still in Hesse, and for a short distance, the perimeter fence forms part of the border with Bavaria.

Here's a map: the old border is in purple, the new border in blue.



WOW, I never knew that! Yup, that's basically the downside of German federalism. May I also mention that I never knew where Hüttengesäß (see Der tiefere Sinn des Labenz) actually is and that I will forever get a kick out of that placename?

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
Zebra57
920211.  Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:38 am Reply with quote

A German court in Cologne has effectively outlawed circumcision for religious reasons. It ruled that the procedure caused bodily harm and negates a child's right to choose a religion when they are older.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish?newsfeed=true

 
CB27
920223.  Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:53 am Reply with quote

That is a very worrying report indeed.

I know there are differing opinions in Islam whether circumcision is necessary or not, and when it needs to be performed, but it's clear cut in Judaism (excuse the pun).

There are also many people (me included) who would prefer to have their boys circumcised from an early age because of medical benefits and the fact that having it done as a baby they're not going to remember the pain. I know there are plenty of studies and opinions to suggest there are no medical benefits, but there are plenty suggesting there is, and many people (including me) err on the side of possible medical benefits. Will we also be turned away?

There is also the point that circumcision does not make you ineligible to convert to other religions, or have no religion at all.

And if this is the start, where will the line be drawn? Will someone in future think that parents are forcing their sense of style on their kids by giving them a haircut before a certain age? Will parents be stopped from allowing kids to dress in certain clothes and/or colours because it might force a sense of image on the kids? I want to be able to put trousers on my son and a dress on my daughter if I think they look right in them (and vice versa if I thought it was the correct thing to do), I want to be able to allow a girl to have long hair and cut a boy's hair short if I wanted.

 
Oceans Edge
920232.  Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:43 am Reply with quote

this may indeed be a bone of contention, but really I fail to see how female circumcision as a cultural norm in some countries is an abomination and genital mutilation, but male circumcision as a cultural norm in other countries is a 'god given right'.

It does kinda smack of political cultural sexual bias.

 
Efros
920242.  Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:37 am Reply with quote

There is a difference, male circumcision can have various benefits whereas as far as I am aware there are none for female circumcision. Female circumcision is purely a means of control and has nothing to do with the well being of the woman/girl concerned.

 
CB27
920273.  Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:06 am Reply with quote

The main difference as I understand it, is that whether medical opinion backs it or not, male circumcision is viewed as a possibly beneficial process, and it may be that it became a religious act as a form of ensuring it took place, whereas female circumcision seems designed to suppress female libido or ensure proof of fidelity/virginity. Therefore, female circumcision seems a forced procedure to suppress and/or control women.

 
suze
920327.  Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:48 am Reply with quote

You'll note, though, that the papers which claim benefits for infant male circumcision come predominantly from territories in which it is the norm (that is to say, mainly Israel and the USA) Similarly, the papers which say that it's a pointless procedure tend to come from territories where it is not the norm (Europe, including the UK, and Canada).

The jury is, at best, out and hopelessly hung. We can however say that in the vast majority of cases there are no long term disbenefits to the procedure.

We cannot say that as regards the female procedure. Mind you, there absolutely are Islamic scholars who claim that there are benefits to the woman who undergoes the procedure. Then again, most of the alleged "benefits" are only perceived as being such by male Islamic scholars. (For instance, it is claimed that the female procedure "prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large". A male Islamic scholar may perhaps consider this a good thing, but a lot of women might beg to differ.)

 
Efros
920328.  Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:50 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:


The jury is, at best, out and hopelessly hung.


Don't think circumcision affects that.

 

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