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Nigelblt
379789.  Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:56 am Reply with quote

defenestrator wrote:
I have heard that it (Blanau Ffestiniog) also holds some less impresisve statistics.


If you look at a map of the Snowdonia National Park there is a hole(sic) in the middle which is Blanau Ffestiniog and the surrounding slate mining waste heaps. Almost certainly not an area of outstanding natural beauty.

 
Michael Young
448852.  Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:30 pm Reply with quote

One quite interesting thing about Wales and Cymru is that the names for the country are antonyms.

The word "Wales" derives from the Old English for "strangers", whereas the word "Cymru" derives from the Welsh for "comrades/countrymen."

And the Welsh word for blue is "glas", which can also be used for green, especially in names.

 
AlmondFacialBar
449171.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:56 am Reply with quote

glas also means blue in breton, but it means exclusively green in irish and scots gaelic.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
96aelw
449207.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:44 am Reply with quote

And green in Manx, too (wholly unsurprisingly, but I thought I'd pop it in out of a sense of completeness).

 
samivel
449257.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:53 am Reply with quote

Well, what about Cornish?

 
96aelw
449273.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:34 am Reply with quote

Excellent point. And Cornish is the only Celtic language for which I actually have a dictionary, as well. Fool that I am. Well, I'm sure you're all on tenterhooks, so the relentlessly unastonishing news is that glas means blue in Cornish, thus maintaining the alliterative blue in Brythonic, green in Goidelic trend.

 
Michael Young
449482.  Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:33 pm Reply with quote

Moving into Kernow, there is a Kernewek national anthem which has the same tune as "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau" / "Land of My Fathers" - but with Kernewek words. It is called "Bro Goth Agan Tasow", which translates as Land of My Fathers. There is also a Breton version, "Bro Gozh ma Zado¨", which...guess what... translates as Land Of My Fathers.

In Kernow they also sing "Trelawny: The Song of the Western Man (or Men)", which outdates Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau by about 30 years or so. It is the chosen anthem of the Kernewek rugby team. Like Flower of Scotland / Scotland the Brave, there is no official position on the anthem; although Gorsedth Kernow prefers Bro Goth Agan Tasow.

Tomorrow, the Barbarians play Australia in rugby union to celebrate 100 years since the Kernewek rugby team, representing Great Britain, played the Aussies in the Olympic Games of 1908 in London. Unusually for a Baa-baas game, instead of wearing their club socks, the players will wear Kernewek rugby socks.

 
samivel
449835.  Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:35 am Reply with quote

Hmm. These Celt folk are rather unimaginative, aren't they? The same word for blue all round, the same tune and translation for their anthems. No wonder they keep getting lumped together.

;)

 
Kotch
760328.  Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:41 am Reply with quote

Well going back to my roots, dunno how widespread this is (though it makes it onto BBC and Wikipedia so maybe doesn't qualify) but Welsh has 7 vowels. "W" and "Y" are classed as full vowels.

Unlike English where letters can have generally more than one sound, Welsh letters have the same sound and changing the sound requires an accent.

The language spoken by people in Wales forms part of the census and has done for generations. Despite all the violence done since the time of Henry VIII done to eradicate the language, the impact on the Welsh language was limited. Even as recently as 1901 census records still show that often the female members of the family spoke only Welsh. In many cases only the head of the household was recorded as "Both".

Today fewer than 1% of the population have "Welsh" as their only language. 22% of the population can legitimately record "Both" (although 18% of them would not call themselves fluent speakers) and the remaining 77% speak only "English" with perhaps a passing appreciation of the tongue.

Arguably it is the increased mobility of people in the C20th combined with the breakdown of class barriers after the WW1 and more importantly social and economic mobility that almost killed the language. It took a concerted effort by so-called Welsh Nationalists defacing English-only roadsigns and the like to keep it alive in the consciousness of the Welsh people long enough that we would want to learn our own language again. Growing up in the 70s and 80s I can't tell you how many parents (including my own) described it as a "dead" and "unnecessary" language.

22% incidentally was recorded in 2004 by the Welsh Language Use Survey and is an increase on that recorded in the 2001 census (OK one percentile point but still...)

 
Kotch
760333.  Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:06 am Reply with quote

samivel wrote:
Hmm. These Celt folk are rather unimaginative, aren't they? The same word for blue all round, the same tune and translation for their anthems. No wonder they keep getting lumped together.

;)


The Breton, Cornish and Welsh languages have the same root. They are understandable to one another the way that some of the Germanic languages would be. That is they can be (sort of) understood through reading but spoken are almost unintelligable at normal talking pace.

If one wants to get high and mighty, compare the words "blue" and "green" with their German equivalents "blau" and "grŘn". Recognisable despite even longer separation and the fact both have been "developed".

By contrast modern Welsh is not much changed as compared to where it was a thousand years ago. For a Welsh literate, reading 900AD Welsh texts is simpler than reading Anglo Saxon equivalents would be to an English reader.

 
ellylles
870323.  Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:23 am Reply with quote

Nigelblt wrote:
defenestrator wrote:
I have heard that it (Blanau Ffestiniog) also holds some less impresisve statistics.


If you look at a map of the Snowdonia National Park there is a hole(sic) in the middle which is Blanau Ffestiniog and the surrounding slate mining waste heaps. Almost certainly not an area of outstanding natural beauty.


Blaenau Ffestiniog was deliberately left out when Snowdonia National Park boundaries were drawn up in 1951 because of its then thriving quarrying industry. It was policy at the time not to include developed urban and industrial areas. Nothing to do with asthetics - yes there is slate waste, but there are certainly also outstandingly beautiful areas - Cwmorthin for one is in the so-called 'hole' yet is absolutely stunning.

 
Zebra57
870448.  Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:01 am Reply with quote

While Blaenau Ffestiniog was left out of Snowdonia National Park, the Dinorwic Quarries were included (in Llanberis). In the Peak District many limestone quarries ended up within the national park.

I read that there are proposals to reduce the slate waste tips by processing the waste for use in road construction etc.

 
ellylles
870458.  Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:01 am Reply with quote

The mining at Blaenau was still going strong when the Park boundaries were being set, however the mining at Dinorwic was already in decline as the slate had become too difficult and expensive to extract. Also the urban development around Dinorwic was not as great as that in Blaenau. I would imagine that those responsible for setting the Park boundaries took all that into consideration.

I can't comment on the situation in the Peak District NP, as I haven't looked into the details. I just wanted to explode the myth about the 'hole' in the Snowdonia NP being attributed to Ffestiniog's alleged lack of beauty.

There have been proposals for reducing the slate waste for some time, although by now there are some objectors because many of the old waste heaps are havens for rare flora and fauna.

Currently, the people of Blaenau are in talks with the Park Authority to try and get the area accepted into the Park thus 'closing the hole'.

 
japhes
1046592.  Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:12 pm Reply with quote

Wales has two longest place names in the world and Llanfairpwll pg is the 2nd in wales and 4th in the world

Type of top ten
Top Ten longest place names in the world.
Introduction
Have you ever watched foreign language films with subtitles and noticed that they seem, sometimes, to be speaking for about a minute on something we could say in 5 seconds? Here might be an explanation...
Contributor
editor@theVoiceofReason.com
http://www.thevoiceofreason.com/TopTenLaughs/OneSite/TenLongestPlaceNames.htm

1
Krung thep mahanakhon bovorn ratanakosin mahintharayutthaya mahadilok pop noparatratchathani burirom udomratchanivetmahasathan amornpiman avatarnsathit sakkathattiyavisnukarmprasit
(Bangkok, Thailand)
(167 letters)
2
Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapiki-maungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu
(Maori name of a hill in New Zealand. Translation: "The place where Tamatea, the man with the big knees, who slid, climbed, and swallowed mountains, known as Land-eater, played on the flute to his loved one"
(85 letters)
3
Gorsafawddachaidraigddanheddogleddoll˘npenrhynareur-draethceredigion
Gwynedd, North Wales. Translation: "The Mawddach station and its dragon teeth at the Northern Penrhyn Road on the golden beach of Cardigan Bay".
(67 letters)
4
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Gwynedd, North Wales. Translation: "St Mary's Church in the hollow of the white hazel near to the rapid whirlpool of the church of St. Tysilo near the Red Cave".
(58 letters)

 
japhes
1046597.  Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:42 pm Reply with quote

3. Two consonants, 'n' and 'r', are sometimes doubled in written Welsh, e.g., "tynnu," "torri." Note that 'dd,' 'ff' and 'll' are not doubled, but are consonants in their own right.
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
drobwllllan; ll seem to be doubled here, as Trobwll and llan the t had gone under soft mutation.
Yr Wyddor Gymraeg/The Welsh Alphabet
http://www.madog.org/dysgwyr/gramadeg/gramadeg1.htmlpost japhes

 

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