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The Holy Roman Empire

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darkscull
123866.  Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:08 pm Reply with quote

technically not a country as such, but it still exists...

Liechtenstein was a fief of the holy roman empire, which dissolved in 1806. but Liechtenstein was never conquered, and did not have its sovereignty.
it was attached to various confederations, and then was a vassal of the Austro-Hungarian empire.
After WWI, when the Austro-Hungarian empire was dissolved, Liechtenstein gained it's independence, but still is technically a fief of the Holy Roman Empire.

so the Holy Roman Empire lives on, despite being neither Holy, Roman, or an empire. (gotta love Voltaire)

 
CaptTimmy
123995.  Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:56 pm Reply with quote

Empire eh? Empire doesn't sound like a good thing. Then again, I think Liechtenstein isn't going to try and expand the empire further than it is. Quite Interesting it's refered to as an 'empire'. One could wonder where that came from?

 
grizzly
124015.  Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:40 pm Reply with quote

I always find it interesting how Americans always think of empire as an inherently bad thing yet seem oblivious to the close similarities between their country and the "Roman Empire".

 
CaptTimmy
124018.  Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:43 pm Reply with quote

grizzly wrote:
I always find it interesting how Americans always think of empire as an inherently bad thing yet seem oblivious to the close similarities between their country and the "Roman Empire".


True. Empires may be benevolent or malevolent. Kind of like herbs. Sorry about the herb thing. 'Twas in Romeo and Juliet and we had a final exam on the book today.

 
andymac
124029.  Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:10 pm Reply with quote

Well, the American Empire now rivals even the British one for overthrowing other people's governments when it suits - even when the governments are democratically elected

e.g.
1949 Syria, Greece (then replaced by Nazis with US/UK support)
1952 Cuba - that worked out well
1953 Iran - that one too (led by Kermit Roosevelt)
1954 Guatemala
1963 Dominican Republic, Ecuador
1972 El Salvador
1973 Chile
1975 Australia (mostly UK)
1987 Fiji
2002 Venezuela - only lasts for 2 days due to popular support, but Chavez is overthrown temporarily by forces backed by CIA.
2004 Haiti - Aristide escorted from country, unwillingly, at gunpoint by U.S. forces, after organisations close to White House destabilize for months. U.S. claims that opposing rebels is not its mission, but opens fire on Aristide supporters all the same. USA justifies by claiming that Aristide is becoming dictatorial - despite the fact that he had abolished the Army years before.

These are just the democratically elected governments overthrown by, or with support of, U.S. - there was considerably more regime change than this.
Also, supporting horrendous regimes and acts of genocide(e.g. East Timor) and expecting taxation and military service from its colonies without allowing true representation. So seems like the American Empire is a malevolent one, like the British one was for much of its existence.

Now, apparently, both of our governments are 'bringing democracy' to the Middle East. Chuckle.[/b]


Last edited by andymac on Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

 
andymac
124030.  Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:21 pm Reply with quote

Actually, that's a good one for the programme. Which fruit brought about the overthrow of a democracy by one of its neighbours?

A: Bananas - the U.S. overthrew the Guatemalan democratic government to protect the United Fruit Company, when Guatemala tried to allow its people to own their own land. The United Fruit Company then became Chiquita Bananas.

See, it's not all about oil...

 
Jenny
124066.  Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:01 pm Reply with quote

I like that - 'Which country had its government overthrown by the US in order to allow the exploitation of its valuable natural resources by American corporations?'

 
samivel
124119.  Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:47 am Reply with quote

That'd be a long list.

 
Long Haired Hippy
124179.  Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:26 am Reply with quote

andymac wrote:

1953 Iran - that one too (led by Kermit Roosevelt)


I'm proud of you for ignoring the obvious joke about installing a puppet dictator. Do I detect the influence of Rob Newman's History of Oil?

 
andymac
124380.  Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:40 pm Reply with quote

Long Haired Hippy wrote:
andymac wrote:

1953 Iran - that one too (led by Kermit Roosevelt)


I'm proud of you for ignoring the obvious joke about installing a puppet dictator. Do I detect the influence of Rob Newman's History of Oil?

Yep - funniest - and most serious - thing he's done in years. Couldn't resist mentioning Kermit, though, despite the fact it wasn't altogether necessary.

Mind you, part of me wanted him to do the whole show as Ray. 'America and Britain really care about democracy, oh yeeaahh they do.

That Winston Churchill, HE was a great Briton.'

 
dr bartolo
735343.  Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:51 pm Reply with quote

at this point. I think no discussion about hte holy roman empire would be complete without the amory of it's states- ( off wikipediea)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quaterionenadler_David_de_Negker.svg
( sorry adress too long)

 
Jenny
735355.  Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:39 pm Reply with quote

Interesting picture!

 
Efros
735378.  Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:51 pm Reply with quote

Not so much overthrowing a government but rigging of the 1948 Italian elections to ensure that a communist government wasn't elected obviated the need to overthrow that government at a later date.

 

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