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Flash
2122.  Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:09 pm Reply with quote

I think what Richard is saying is that both of the biblical accounts were written some time after the event by people who had different axes to grind, so you shouldn't take either of them as the literal truth even in the original - so whether you translate them that way or this, you're just obfuscating further something which is already obfuscated somewhat, so you're wasting your time.

For example, if you found that there were two accounts of your own childhood, one in the Daily Mail and the other in the Sunday Express, which do you think would be the 100% accurate one?

The point is, has he shot our fox in the sense that he has made it clear that there isn't a clear Q&A for the TV show on this subject?

 
JumpingJack
2128.  Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:15 pm Reply with quote

I'm with Garrick, here, I have to say.

Abbé Coles explanation seems a mite too glib to me.

We await the pronouncement of our other priestly acquaintance with interest.

Meanwhile, Garrick, just to keep things even, I'm afraid you're wrong about Judas' suicide being the only one mentioned in the King James Bible. There is at least one (other) record of suicide (by hanging, no less) – in 2 Samuel 17:23:

Quote:
And when Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his ass, and arose, and gat him home to his house, to his city, and put his household in order, and hanged himself, and died, and was buried in the sepulchre of his father.

 
JumpingJack
2131.  Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:40 pm Reply with quote

Whichever side of the debate you are on, you may enjoy this ingenious alternative explanation:

Quote:
But when Judas tried to resist the power of Satan and throw the silver at the feet of the priests there at the Temple, what happened? The language is kind of confusing. In one Scripture it says Judas hung himself, and in another it says that Judas fell head-long and his bowels burst forth. In reality both are correct. There are no contradictions in Scripture. When he tried to rebel against Satan, Judas's body almost exploded with the power of Satan. As he was catapulted, Judas' body burst asunder, and at the same time he hanged himself on a pole as the result of the catapulting.


http://www.havefaith.org/new_page_6d.htm

 
Jenny
2139.  Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:52 pm Reply with quote

Good grief that's a bit tortuous, not to mention tortured. Jack - I forwarded your email to Colm, but one address bounced and I don't know how often he checks the other. I have, however, emailed you his phone number (I know he won't mind) so you could give him a call if you wanted to.

The Ahitophel thing is interesting because a couple of websites I looked at on this suggested (as does Rich Coles) that the hanging is put there deliberately to draw a connection with the Ahitophel story in Samuel.

 
Flash
2155.  Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:27 am Reply with quote

And this all refers back to Garrick's earlier post about why Jesus went to the trouble of ensuring that he fulfilled the prophesies. The answer preferred by modern scholars seems to be that he didn't, but people writing about him as propagandists for a particular, and later, view (that he was the promised Messiah) did.

 
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2157.  Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:52 am Reply with quote

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Jenny
2172.  Wed Nov 26, 2003 8:39 am Reply with quote

Another explanation I saw on a website for the impaling was that traitors were hanged from a pole rather than a gallows, so that they choked to death rather than had their necks broken, so that might be where the pole came in.

 
hardie
2288.  Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:48 pm Reply with quote

Notable omissions from the Bible: Thou Shalt Not Lie. Apart from 'bearing false witness, which is not quite the same thing, woppers are apparently OK. Not a mention in either the OT or NT as far as I know..

 
Flash
2295.  Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:28 pm Reply with quote

Also the ten commandments have no argument with violence, so long as you don't kill anyone.

 
Jenny
2299.  Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:45 pm Reply with quote

Don't you think lies and violence might be subsumed (at any rate in the NT) under the general heading of 'do as you would be done by'?

 
Flash
2303.  Thu Nov 27, 2003 7:00 pm Reply with quote

Yes, if it was one of the 10 Commandments. The NT addenda aren't in the 10.

 
Jenny
2304.  Thu Nov 27, 2003 7:15 pm Reply with quote

I was replying to hardie's comment, Flash
Quote:
Notable omissions from the Bible
'Do as you would be done by' is a little broader than the ten commandments - something of a catch-all really. Except for masochists of course.

 
DELETED
2479.  Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:10 pm Reply with quote

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JumpingJack
2480.  Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:15 pm Reply with quote

Er...not really Garrick.

Our scholars seem either dismissive or reluctant to commit themselves. However, I still think you're on to something.

I'll see if I can find Columba3's reply to my email....

 
DELETED
2481.  Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:22 pm Reply with quote

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