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Kings of England and Scotland

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112266.  Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:49 pm Reply with quote

Did you know that the first person to be king or queen of England of Scotland was Edward I not James I and VI.

From A Scot

gerontius grumpus
112359.  Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:49 pm Reply with quote

What about Athelstan?

112450.  Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:55 am Reply with quote

Although Athelstan was the first King of all England, he never actually took Scotland. However, he did stop an invasion of the Scots with the help of the Welsh and Danes.

112453.  Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:03 am Reply with quote

He chose the next Scottish king (John Balliol) when Margaret died in 1290, but did he ever officially become king of Scotland?

112469.  Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:47 am Reply with quote

I would say No.

He insisted on being granted the title Lord Paramount of Scotland while refereeing the debate over who should get the vacant throne. Having decided in favour of John Balliol, he certainly exerted plenty of influence over Balliol's rule - until the two men fell out, Balliol was forced to abdicate, and events involving persons such as Robert the Bruce and William Wallace unfolded.

But Edward was never crowned at the Stone of Scone - and of course, neither was anyone after him since Edward proceeded to steal it and take it to London.

112904.  Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:56 am Reply with quote

Although it is believed, or so I heard, that the Stone of Scone he took back to England was actually a fake and the REAL Stone is knocking around somewhere.

113082.  Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:29 am Reply with quote

The real Stone of Destiny is supposed to be a lump of the hexagonal igneous rock, which forms Staffa and the Giant's Causeway, with an iron ring attached. It is popularly held to be in the care of an old scottish family whose name escapes me at the moment [but I'll pass it on when I remember/discover it] whose charge is to keep it safe until there is a legitimate heir or presumably heiress to the Scottich throne to be crowned on it.

We did talk about this a while back, but I can't remember if anybody posted the song about its theft and recovery.

The Wee Magic Stane
(John McEvoy)

Oh the Dean o' Westminster wis a powerful man,
He held a' the strings o' the state in his hand.
But with a' this great business it flustered him nane,
Till some rogues ran away wi' his wee magic stane."

chorus: Wi' a too-ra-li-oor-a-li-oor-a-li-ay."

Noo the stane had great pow'rs that could dae such a thing
And withoot it, it seemed, we'd be wantin' a king,
So he called in the polis and gave this decree--
"Go an' hunt oot the Stane and return it tae me."

So the polis went beetlin' up tae the North
They huntit the Clyde and they huntit' the Forth [ie, west & east]
But the wild folk up yonder jist kiddit them a'
Fur they didnae believe it wis magic at a'.

Noo the Provost o' Glesga, Sir Victor by name,
Was awfy pit oot when he heard o' the Stane
So he offered the statues that staun in the Square [George Square - they're mostly hideous and no loss]
That the high churches' masons might mak a few mair.

When the Dean o' Westminster wi' this was acquaint,
He sent for Sir Victor and made him a saint,
"Now it's no use you sending your statues down heah,"
Said the Dean, "But you've given me a jolly good ideah."

So he quarried a stane o' the very same stuff
An' he dressed it a' up till it looked like enough
Then he sent for the Press and announced that the Stane
Had been found and returned to Westminster again.

When the reivers found oot what Westminster had done,
They went aboot diggin' up stanes by the ton
And fur each wan they feenished they entered the claim
That THIS was the true and original stane.

Noo the cream o' the joke still remains tae be tellt,
Fur the bloke that was turnin' them aff on the belt
At the peak o' production was so sorely pressed
That the real yin got bunged in alang wi' the rest.

So if ever ye come on a stane wi' a ring
Jist sit yersel' doon and appoint yersel King
Fur there's nane wud be able to challenge yir claim
That ye'd croont yersel King on the Destiny Stane.

101 Scottish Songs, compiled
by Norman Buchan

113103.  Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:49 am Reply with quote

Other interesting Edward I facts:

- He escaped from Hereford Castle, where he was being held by Simon De Montfort, under the pretext of testing a horse, which his supporters had supplied.

- His nickname, 'Longshanks', was apt - his tomb was opened in the 19th century (i think), and his body was very well preserved. He was 6' 2"

- He was close to his wife, Eleanor, and when she died he had crosses, such as Charing Cross, erected along the route of her funeral procession.

113108.  Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:58 am Reply with quote

Southpaw wrote:

- He was close to his wife, Eleanor, and when she died he had crosses, such as Charing Cross, erected along the route of her funeral procession.

This was part of a giant royal game. A friend erected a series of stone noughts. The result was a predictable stalemate, but Longshanks only understood this when attempting to win a global thermonuclear war.

119694.  Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:19 pm Reply with quote

The first king to abdicate was Richard II.
1360510.  Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:04 pm Reply with quote

robertkelly50 wrote:
Although Athelstan was the first King of all England, he never actually took Scotland. However, he did stop an invasion of the Scots with the help of the Welsh and Danes.

Athelstan was, strictly speaking, King of the English (rex anglorum) rather than King of England (rex anglie). This was a title he awarded to himself after defeating the Viking kingdom of York and reoccupying the former Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Northumbria.

The first King of England was Henry II who, soon after acceding to the throne in 1154, changed his title from rex anglorum to rex anglie. This was part of an international trend in Europe in the 12th century: kings changing their title from rulers of a people to rulers of a territory. Henry's great rival, King Philippe II Auguste changed his title from King of the Franks to King of France in the same time period.

Last edited by on Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total


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