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NETHERLANDS, The

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zifnab
1080506.  Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:56 am Reply with quote

There is another rather fascinating part of the Netherlands. very well visible on a map of around the year 2000.

After WW2 Germany was forced to pay for the inflicted damage. Part of this was that the community of Selfkant became Dutch (Gemeinde Selfkant) in 1949.
But in this time the coal mines around Heerlen/Kerkrade were still active. To facilitate the transport of these coals to the central part of NL, a road was constructed: the N274. This roads runs right through Selfkant.
In 1963 the relationship between the Netherlands and W-Germany was much better and Selfkant was returned to W-Germany. However, without the road. The road stayed Dutch property.
This creates a situation in which a part of Germany (Selfkant) is separated from the rest of W-Germany by one road. Off course, people were not allowed to travel easily between these parts, the treaty of Schengen was far from active. So what you see as a result on the map is that all the roads near N274 - they stop - they go over N274 - they go under N274 - they bend just before N274, but they don't connect to the road!
Only in 2002 has this road been returned to Germany and nowadays are constructions under way to improve this situation.

 
'yorz
1080751.  Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:34 pm Reply with quote



Something absolutely astonishing and mortifying that I learnt last week:

The notion that the Dutch as a nation rebelled against the deportations of their Jewish compatriots during WW2 has been discredited for a long time. Too many instances of active collaboration with the Germans have been documented.

But the following literally took my breath away. In Amsterdam's Weesperstraat, a monument was erected in 1950: a gift from the surviving Jewish community to thank the Dutch nation for its protection.

The inscription says:

"To the protectors of the Dutch Jews during the Occupation.
Accepting God's will.
United in your repulsion.
Protected by your love.
Strengthened by your resistance.
Grieving with you."

Wonderful - if rather pompous - words. If only they were deserved. At a time when antisemitism was already rearing its ugly head again, the monument was more or less demanded by the Amsterdam City Council from the Jews, many of whom had survived the extermination camps and, upon returning to their homes, had found them taken over by others, their possessions confiscated/sold, getting hardly any help with finding a roof over their heads... And how it was paid for? By withholding the first German financial compensation payments towards the Jewish population.

It is a shameful example of chutzpah in its original, negative, sense - "insolence" or "audacity".

 
zifnab
1081190.  Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:49 am Reply with quote

One addition to my previous story about Selfkant. The Dutch annexation plans for German territory were rather large. In this image you can see the size of the original annexation area.
In the end only small corrections are made. Selfkant became temporarily Dutch and there are some corrections near Nijmegen. Selfkant is just a small part of territory nr.35.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1081191.  Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:59 am Reply with quote

They wanted Bremen but not Bremerhaven? Well that was silly of them to start with, means we could have kept all the important port facilities to ourselves.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
zifnab
1081999.  Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:19 am Reply with quote

AlmondFacialBar wrote:
They wanted Bremen but not Bremerhaven? Well that was silly of them to start with, means we could have kept all the important port facilities to ourselves.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar


Why do you want Bremerhaven if you already have Amsterdam and Rotterdam? :-)

 
zifnab
1082002.  Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:15 am Reply with quote

Time for the next rather intriguing story: concerning Dukdalfs.
Somehow it made it to a lot of different languages like
    Deutsch (Düchdalben)
    French (Duc d' Albe)
    Duque de Alba (Español)
    Dalba (Polski)
    Dykdalb (Svenska) and
    Дукдальф (Russian).

A dukdalf is set one to four large wooden (usually) oak beams, connected with each other to create a really strong post in the water, like:

The word consists of three parts: 'duk' 'd' and 'alf'. Duk is from Duke, d is from French or Spanish meaning 'of', and Alf is a wrong translation for Alba. So, it refers to one of the oldest Duchies in Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Alba).

However the word originates from the Dutch and came to be during the 80 Years War or Independence war of the Dutch against Spain (1568-1648). The Spanish King Felipe II send his army to the Netherlands under command of his General Don Fernando Álvarez de Toledo y Pimentel, 3rd Duke of Alba.

He was one of the best Spanish Generals. One of the great victories was his conquering of Antwerpen which was believed to be impossible. By the way, the mayor of Antwerpen afterwards wrote the Wilhelmus (it is a song to stimulate people to join in the army to fight against Spain) which is now the national anthem of the Netherlands. So a Belgian wrote the Dutch national anthem.

Various reasons are being given as to why this structure has been named after the Duke of Alba.
1. Originally the bottompart was painted and black while the top part (like in the picture) is white. This resembles the clothing style of the late Duke who always wore black and a white collar.
2. Another explanation is that these poles where hidden in the bush at the sides of large waterways. Between the Dukdalfs a chain would be suspended, running just beneath the water line. Thus a simple but very effective method to stop enemy (wooden!) ships from entering waterways.
3. A Dukdalf is as unyielding as the Duke of Alba.
4. If sailors used a Dukdalf to moor their boat, it would look like they are throwing a rope around the neck of the Duke.

 
zifnab
1082004.  Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:26 am Reply with quote

Q: Name a part within what is now the Netherlands but which wasn't fighting the Spanish during the 80 Years War?
A: The Prince-abbey of Thorn

The prince-abbey of Thorn was a tiny but independent part in Brabant which didn't belong to any of the larger provinces which formed the Republic of Seven United Netherlands but belonged to the Holy Roman Empire (nowadays Germany). Only in 1795 with the French occupation did Thorn lose its independence and was it included into Brabant.

 
'yorz
1082009.  Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:36 am Reply with quote

zifnab wrote:
By the way, the mayor of Antwerpen afterwards wrote the Wilhelmus (it is a song to stimulate people to join in the army to fight against Spain) which is now the national anthem of the Netherlands. So a Belgian wrote the Dutch national anthem.


Nope. ;-)

Quote:
Origins of the lyrics

Early version of the Wilhelmus as preserved in a manuscript of 1617 (Brussels, Royal Library, MS 15662, fol. 37v-38r)

The origins of the lyrics are uncertain. Soon after the anthem was finished it was said that either Philips van Marnix, a writer, statesman and former mayor of Antwerp, or Dirck Coornhert, a politician and theologian, wrote the lyrics. However, this is disputed as both Marnix and Coornhert never mentioned that they wrote the lyrics. This is strange since the song was immensely popular in their time. The Wilhelmus also has some odd rhymes in it. In some cases the vowels of certain words were altered to allow them to rhyme with other words. Some see this as evidence that neither Marnix or Coornhert wrote the anthem as they were both experienced poets when the Wilhelmus was written and they would not have taken these small liberties. Hence some believe that the lyrics of the Dutch national anthem were the creation of someone who just wrote one poem for the occasion and then disappeared from history. A French translation of the Wilhelmus appeared around 1582.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1082271.  Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:26 am Reply with quote

zifnab wrote:
Time for the next rather intriguing story: concerning Dukdalfs.
Somehow it made it to a lot of different languages like[list] Deutsch (Düchdalben)[/url]).


Duckdalben actually, usually shortened to Dalben. As German doesn't seem to have a word for second row plane parking I occasionally apply it to that, too, but that has yet to catch on. ;-)

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
'yorz
1082281.  Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:45 am Reply with quote

Strange how one's memory can play up - I was convinced that dukdalven were 'crowned' with a metal 'helmet', and thus were named after that nasty piece of Spanish work who tended to wear a similarly shaped helmet.
Neither appears true.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1082283.  Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:19 am Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
Strange how one's memory can play up - I was convinced that dukdalven were 'crowned' with a metal 'helmet', and thus were named after that nasty piece of Spanish work who tended to wear a similarly shaped helmet.
Neither appears true.


That's the etymology I learned as a kid, too. I can't say that I've ever seen one that actually did have a metal helmet, though.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
zifnab
1084134.  Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:28 am Reply with quote



I agree with you that in my mind a dukdalf looks more like on this picture, so with the metal cap on top. I couldn't find as fast a picture with the bottompart painted black as nowadays they tend not to tar them anymore.

I at least have never heard of the explanation about some kind of helmet. Just about the clothing style, the rope around the neck, and the closing of the waterways.

Maybe the best summary is that the pole is named after this old duke, and there are several reasons given to this.

 
zifnab
1084410.  Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:01 am Reply with quote

But about writing the Dutch national anthem. Shall we agree that Filips van Marnix van St. Aldegonde is among the people who are likely to have written it? I agree it is still not 100% proven, but what I understand he is very high on the lists of possible writers.

 
'yorz
1084411.  Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:27 am Reply with quote

I don't care who wrote it. It was written long time ago and as a national anthem should be replaced by something that in this day and age is less silly to have to sing.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1084412.  Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:30 am Reply with quote

Gosh, we can has lyrics?

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 

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