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NETHERLANDS, The

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fnurk
888681.  Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:49 pm Reply with quote

AlmondFacialBar wrote:
Groningen is actually a Frisian city and its inhabitants don't claim Dutch as their native language.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

If that's true, why would Groningers refer to their city as 'Grunnen' instead of the Frisian 'Grins'?

Now, I'm not claiming this to be true, but the wikipedia article on Groningen states that around 1361, Groningen considered itself a Frisian city. Other than that one period, I don't see much evidence for it being a Frisian city. Quite on the contrary, the article makes a claim its origin lies in the province of Drenthe. (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_(stad))

So I'm curious as to why you would label Groningen a Frisian city. I personally live in Groningen (having moved there from the western part of the Netherlands) and while in the west people from the north are pretty much thrown together as 'northerners' or maybe even Frisians, real Groningers certainly don't consider themselves Frisian and I think many don't even speak and / or understand Frisian.

And to add to that, I think almost all inhabitants would claim Dutch as their native language, since Gronings is a dialect, whereas Frisian is a seperate language.

 
Heldoorn
921341.  Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:34 pm Reply with quote

fnurk wrote:
the wikipedia article on Groningen states that around 1361, Groningen considered itself a Frisian city. Other than that one period, I don't see much evidence for it being a Frisian city.


Yes, and Urk's extreme debauchery is happening in Amsterdam because Urk used to be part of Amsterdam for a while. Since you seem to accept Wikipedia as a source, you could read about Magna Frisia as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_Kingdom.

So Groningen once or twice was a Frisian city, but that doesn't mean it still is a Frisian city with a Frisian language. Just like Groningen isn't a Dutch (Duitse, Deutsche) city. The language there is Frysk nor Deutsch, albeit Frisian and German tribes played a role in its history.

 
Jenny
921600.  Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:47 am Reply with quote

Welcome to QI, Heldoorn :-)

 
Monica
932259.  Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:21 am Reply with quote

Hello,

only just discovered Qi a few weeks ago. (how have I lived without it for so long?)

I hope you don't mind if I return to the anthem from the beginning of the thread, but I was wondering about the length of it.

Singing the entire anthem takes about twenty minutes (I have tried, and not even at snails pace like you do at official functions). I must admit I am a little surprised as many as 14% of us know the entire anthem by heart. Are there countries with a longer anthem, or is the Wilhelmus the longest?

 
PDR
932261.  Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:32 am Reply with quote

I don't know about Anthems, but it is certainly true that English contains the longest Sentence known to man.

PDR

 
suze
932273.  Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:10 am Reply with quote

This all depends on how one defines the "official version" of the national anthem - but Het Wilhelmus is certainly one of the longest.

Starting in the UK, there is no statutory definition of which verses constitute the "official version" of God save the Queen. But George V once pronounced that the "proper interpretation" was to perform the first and third verses with a specific orchestration, so that may as well be the "official version".

In contrast, Dutch statute does define the "official version" of Het Wilhelmus as containing all fifteen verses. Even so, most performances contain either just verse one, or verse one and verse six.

The Greek national anthem Ýmnos eis tin Eleftherían (Ὕμνος εἰς τὴν Ἐλευθερίαν) has, in its full version, 158 verses. But Greek statute defined the "official version" as being only the first three verses, subsequently reduced to the first two.

The Uruguayan national anthem Orientales, la Patria o la Tumba originally had thirteen verses, but the "official version" uses only the first two. Even so, both verses are sung three times and there is a long instrumental break, and the anthem as conventionally performed in Uruguay lasts six minutes.


The national anthems as used for the recent Olympic games were all recorded by the London Philharmonic Orchestra over a week at Abbey Road last September. IOC rules require the anthem to last not less than sixty seconds (it takes that long to hoist the flags) and not more than ninety (the crowd gets bored), and so many were rearranged.

Uganda's national anthem Oh Uganda, Land of Beauty lasts only nine bars and is conventionally played in 18 seconds. To get it up to sixty seconds, the LPO played it twice with an improvized middle eight between the two. Uganda is said rather to like this, since it allows the verse to be sung in English and then repeated in Swahili.

 
Jumper
932767.  Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:53 am Reply with quote

New Zealand is unique for having two national anthems of equal standing - God Defend New Zealand and God Save The Queen. Both were inspired by patriotism, yet written in very different circumstances.

However these days God Defend New Zealand is more popular.
But if we were to sing both in full we would get six verses of God Save The Queen followed by "God Defend New Zealand" which has a total of ten verses, five each in English and Māori.

The Māori version is not a direct translation of the English version. For example the first verse English version is

God of Nations at Thy feet,
In the bonds of love we meet,
Hear our voices, we entreat,
God defend our free land.
Guard Pacific's triple star
From the shafts of strife and war,
Make her praises heard afar,
God defend New Zealand.

The Māori version translated into English is

O Lord, God,
of all people
Listen to us,
Cherish us
May good flourish,
May your blessings flow.
Defend
Aotearoa

In Māori

E Ihowā Atua,
O ngā iwi mātou rā
Āta whakarangona;
Me aroha noa
Kia hua ko te pai;
Kia tau tō atawhai;
Manaakitia mai
Aotearoa

So does sixteen verses win???

 
fnurk
953760.  Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:32 am Reply with quote

Heldoorn wrote:
fnurk wrote:
the wikipedia article on Groningen states that around 1361, Groningen considered itself a Frisian city. Other than that one period, I don't see much evidence for it being a Frisian city.


Yes, and Urk's extreme debauchery is happening in Amsterdam because Urk used to be part of Amsterdam for a while. Since you seem to accept Wikipedia as a source, you could read about Magna Frisia as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian_Kingdom.

So Groningen once or twice was a Frisian city, but that doesn't mean it still is a Frisian city with a Frisian language. Just like Groningen isn't a Dutch (Duitse, Deutsche) city. The language there is Frysk nor Deutsch, albeit Frisian and German tribes played a role in its history.

Wow, snippy much? I used Wikipedia as a source, yes, specifically pointing out that I wasn't claiming it to be true. Moreover, it wasn't even to bring forth an argument to support my own contention, which seems to be the same as yours.

And it is true that Dutch is somewhat of a misnomer, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Groningen isn't a Dutch city or that they don't speak Dutch there.

 
CB27
970174.  Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:44 pm Reply with quote

On Mankind, The Story of All of Us, they covered the tulip bubble of the 1630s and mentioned some orphans who received a lof of money for some bulbs their father owned.

I decided to look this story up and I can see that this relates to an auction in late 1636 where 7 orphans were left 70 bulbs, including a rare Violetten Admirael van Enkhuizen bulb, and these were all sold for a total of 53k Guilders. Converting that sum to the rates of inflation and then into Sterling, this equates to a little over £3m in today's money.

I cannot find the names of these orphans, but it would be interesting to know if their guardians used this money well and if it helped them in their future.

 
'yorz
970178.  Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:56 pm Reply with quote

Interesting, that, CB.
I found this snippet about the collapse of the tulip market.
Never thought about that. :-)

 
CB27
970236.  Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:06 am Reply with quote

Whenever I hear about people who become footnotes in history I always wonder what happened to them and if their decendents made anything of themselves.

 
Zebra57
970379.  Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:53 am Reply with quote

This extraordinary period of Dutch history illustrates the truism that something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2012/12/when-certain-tulips-cost-more-than-a-house/

 
knightmare
1028967.  Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:10 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
On Mankind, The Story of All of Us, they covered the tulip bubble of the 1630s and mentioned some orphans who received a lof of money for some bulbs their father owned.


I would recommend Discovery Channels' documentary Tulip Mania, which is interesting for about any investor, since it'll be the first documented bubble in the country with the first stock exchange in the world. There's also a classic book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds

Quote:
I cannot find the names of these orphans, but it would be interesting to know if their guardians used this money well and if it helped them in their future.


I'm sure it helped the guardians, churches and the government in their short-term future, but it's hard to find evidence if it actually happened. Check your own history too. In theory you should probably be rich. But if I gave you a GBP 250k Dutch house, a great story on its own, you would also own a tax debt of about GBP 90k.

 
ConorOberstIsGo
1056670.  Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:42 am Reply with quote

Don't quite know how I feel about this...

It's Dynasty played entirely with Downs Syndrome actors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Qh3x39WV4I

 
knightmare
1069525.  Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:06 am Reply with quote

Ellen DeGeneres' subtitled version of a Dutch hoax to
promote Sail Kampen 2014. In 2017 the event will be
combined with the international Hanse days.

 

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