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bobwilson
658315.  Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:50 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
While Guantanamo Bay is a relict of a bygone age, in an odd way its continued status could be said to reinforce the Cuban Government's claim of US imperialism.


As, indeed, could the 100+ "RAF" bases in the UK which are occupied by the USAF

 
Zebra57
659930.  Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:22 pm Reply with quote

SMOM followers may wish to comment on the claims of Sealand as to the smallest country.

 
Zebra57
664329.  Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:47 am Reply with quote

Returning to SMOM one QI fact is that it ruled the island of St Croix in the Caribbean from 1651 to 1665.

There is a QI website that lists SMOM's activities today.

http://www.ordendemaltacolombia.org/Info_SMOM/en_activities.htm

 
PDR
664347.  Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:14 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
As, indeed, could the 100+ "RAF" bases in the UK which are occupied by the USAF


Huh? Firstly the USAF are in the UK by invitation and part of the NATO mutual-defence treaties, and secondly there are (I think) only six USAF-resident RAF stations in the UK (albeit that Alconbury is actually three closely located airfields, but it's one base).

Of these two are just comminications/sigint facilities (with no airbase or offensive capability) that are part of the NATO (not USAnian) command and control infrustructure. Neither the US Navy, Army nor Marine Corps have any residence in the UK (and haven't had for quite some time).

So I don't know where these other 94+ bases are. FWIW the RAF doesn't actually have "100+ bases" of any kind within the UK...

PDR

 
BondiTram
664382.  Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:32 pm Reply with quote

Zebra57 wrote:
The discussion does raise a QI point as to what constitutes a country? The eight points in djgordy's list would not fit Monaco Scotland or Wales.


And England.
In fact the latter has even less claim than the first 3, at least they have some form of independant government.

Oh, and btw, is the status of the RAF bases on Cyprus similar to Guantanamo?
And if so, if we empty them of all the planes, could we empty our gaols there??

 
bobwilson
664594.  Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:06 am Reply with quote

PDR wrote:
bobwilson wrote:
As, indeed, could the 100+ "RAF" bases in the UK which are occupied by the USAF


Huh? Firstly the USAF are in the UK by invitation and part of the NATO mutual-defence treaties, and secondly there are (I think) only six USAF-resident RAF stations in the UK (albeit that Alconbury is actually three closely located airfields, but it's one base).

Of these two are just comminications/sigint facilities (with no airbase or offensive capability) that are part of the NATO (not USAnian) command and control infrustructure. Neither the US Navy, Army nor Marine Corps have any residence in the UK (and haven't had for quite some time).

So I don't know where these other 94+ bases are. FWIW the RAF doesn't actually have "100+ bases" of any kind within the UK...

PDR


Quote:
Firstly the USAF are in the UK by invitation and part of the NATO mutual-defence treaties


I'll ignore that for now.

Quote:
secondly there are (I think) only six USAF-resident RAF stations in the UK (albeit that Alconbury is actually three closely located airfields, but it's one base).


The ones I know of from personal experience (in alphabetical order):

Alconbury
Bentwaters
Brize Norton
Chelveston
Chicksands
Daws Hill
Fairford
Greenham Common
Lakenheath
Manston
Molesworth
Mildenhall
Scampton
Upper Heyford
Waddington
Welford
Wethersfield

That's just the ones I know of from direct personal experience (I don't have the time or inclination to mount a tour of all of them).

Quote:
Of these two are just comminications/sigint facilities


And your point is?

Quote:
FWIW the RAF doesn't actually have "100+ bases" of any kind within the UK...


This may be correct -if we're excluding those "RAF" bases under US occupation.

Quote:
Neither the US Navy, Army nor Marine Corps have any residence in the UK


I never said they did.

But if you really want to be pedantic about what constitutes a USAF base then perhaps you'd like to try lawfully leafletting within the village of Brington in Cambridgeshire? You'll quickly find yourself arrested under US military law. Although the village of Brington lies entirely without the area that is designated a military area it is still subject to martial law (that is US martial law) due to the presence of military housing for USAF staff in the area.

 
bobwilson
664596.  Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:09 am Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh, and btw, is the status of the RAF bases on Cyprus similar to Guantanamo?
And if so, if we empty them of all the planes, could we empty our gaols there??


That is an interesting question. The RAF bases on Cyprus are sovereign areas - so my bet is that they're similar to Guantanamo in that they aren't subject to Cypriot law; but different in that they're subject to UK law. But I could be wrong.

 
samivel
664603.  Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:07 am Reply with quote

Perish the thought...

 
PDR
664659.  Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:55 am Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:

Quote:
Firstly the USAF are in the UK by invitation and part of the NATO mutual-defence treaties


I'll ignore that for now.


Why? NATO is established under a mutual-defense treaty which pledges each member to deploy and share operational facilities in eachothers' territory. You seem to have overlooked the UK facilities in america as well.

Quote:
The ones I know of from personal experience (in alphabetical order):

Alconbury



Is one of the six, yes

Quote:


Bentwaters



Closed some years ago and is now an induistrial estate

Quote:

Brize Norton


Is an RAF station operated by and for the RAF - it is their main l;ogistics hub for air transport. US aircraft use it occaisionally, just as RAF aircraft flying into the USA will use USAF/USN/USMC airfields in preference top civillian ones. No US aircraft or facilities are based there.
Quote:

Chelveston


Was mostly sold off, and now while it provides housing for US personnel from alconbury and molesworth it can hardly be described as a "US base".

Quote:

Chicksands


Is a British Army signals intelligence facility. Some US intel units were hosted there in the 50s and 60s, but the last US presence withdrew from the site nearly 15 years ago.

Quote:

Daws Hill


Was a NATO Communications Intelligence facility that essentially closed in 2007, although the administrative details remain to be completed.

Quote:

Fairford


Was a standby airfield that was brough up to temporary operational status to support B52 operations in the Gulf Wars. It is now in the process of being returned to care-and-maintenance with the last of the US staff being withdrawn by the end of this year.

Quote:

Greenham Common


Closed in 1993 and is now an industrial estate

Quote:

Lakenheath


Is another of the six

Quote:

Manston


Is now "Kent International Airport", although I believe the MoD kept part of the land to continue hosting its fire-fighting school.

Quote:

Molesworth


Is no longer an airfield (it has had no runways or hangars for over 30 years) and houses administrative functions for Alconbury and Upwood (these three bases comprise a single unit).

Quote:

Mildenhall


Is another of the six

Quote:

Scampton


Is an RAF airfield operated by and for the RAF - it's the home of the Red Arrows and a few non-flying organisations (met people, for example). I don't think the USAF have *ever* used scampton even during WW2.

Quote:

Upper Heyford


Closed as an airfield in 1994 and the american users withdrew from it at that time. It is now largely derelict, but is leased as storage space for new cars.

Quote:

Waddington


Is and has always been an RAF base, owned and operated by and for the RAF - no US units have ever been based there. It currently hosts things like the RAF Air Warfare Centre, and facilities like that don;t share homes with foreign powers - even friendly ones.

Quote:

Welford


Is a NATO (not US) munitions storage facility.

Quote:

Wethersfield


Was evacuated by the USAF in 1970 and is now mainly used as a training venue by the RAF, RAF police and fire4-righting units.

Quote:

That's just the ones I know of from direct personal experience (I don't have the time or inclination to mount a tour of all of them).


And as shown above your direct personal experience is seriously out of date.

Quote:

Quote:

Of these two are just comminications/sigint facilities


And your point is?


These are NATO facilities operated for mutual benefit. They are not US facilities operated by and for the USA.

Quote:

Quote:
FWIW the RAF doesn't actually have "100+ bases" of any kind within the UK...


This may be correct -if we're excluding those "RAF" bases under US occupation.


No, it's just correct. The "US Occupation" is an artifact of the fact that your tinfoil hat is overdue for servicing.

2/10 - stay after school.

PDR

 
PDR
664705.  Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:35 am Reply with quote

[quote="bobwilson"]
PDR wrote:
Quote:
FWIW the RAF doesn't actually have "100+ bases" of any kind within the UK...


This may be correct -if we're excluding those "RAF" bases under US occupation.


Just looked it up. The RAF currently have 82 "bases" (including office buildings and storage sites) in the UK plus seven overseas bases:

UK:
RAF Henlow
RAF Stanbridge
RAF Welford
RAF Woodley
RAF Halton
RAF High Wycombe
RAF Brampton
RAF Wittering
RAF Wyton
RAF St. Mawgan
RRH Portreath
RAF Spadeadam
Royal Marines Base Chivenor
RAF Fairford
Defence CBRN Centre, Winterbourne Gunner
RAF Oakhanger
RAF Odiham
RAF Barkway
Northwood Headquarters
RAF Barkston Heath
RAF Cranwell
DCAE Cosford
RAF Digby
RAF Coningsby
RAF Donna Nook
RAF Holbeach
RAF Scampton
RAF Waddington
RAF Wainfleet
RAF Northolt
RAF Uxbridge
RAF West Drayton
RAF Woodvale
RAF Feltwell
RAF Marham
RAF Neatishead
RAF Trimingham
RAF Croughton
RAF Boulmer
RAF Syerston
RAF Barford St John
RAF Benson
RAF Brize Norton
RAF Weston-on-the-Green
RAF Cottesmore
RAF Cosford
RAF Shawbury
RAF Ternhill
MoD Stafford
RAF Honington
RAF Lakenheath
RAF Mildenhall
Wattisham Airfield
DMRC Headley Court
MoD Boscombe Down
RAF Lyneham
RAF Holmpton
RAF Leconfield
RAF Church Fenton
RAF Dishforth
RAF Fylingdales
RAF Leeming
RAF Menwith Hill
RAF Staxton Wold
RAF Topcliffe
RAF Linton-on-Ouse
RRH Benbecula
RAF Buchan
RAF Kinloss
RAF Leuchars
RAF Lossiemouth
RAF Prestwick
RAF Tain
RAF Pembrey Sands
RAF Sealand
RAF Mona
RAF Valley
MoD St Athan
JHC (Joint Helicopter Command) Aldergrove
MoD West Freugh

Overseas:
RAF Ascension Island
RAF Akrotiri
RAF Troodos
RAF Mount Pleasant
RAF Nordhorn
RAF Gibraltar
RAF Al Udeid


So even if they wanted to the RAF could not pr9ovide "100+" for the USAF.

This information is all publicly available on the web. I suggest you check the facts before posting rubbish to the internet - I always do...

:0)

PDR

 
Zebra57
666200.  Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:19 pm Reply with quote

Returning to SMOM:

Apart from being a QI curiosity the organisation does a great deal of charitable work around the globe. It also trains people in first aid like other organisations like the Red Cross and St John's Ambulance service.

 
Zebra57
693594.  Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:49 pm Reply with quote

I came across some SMOM stamps recently featuring coats of arms. Apparently many stamp dealers do not handle SMOM issues. This is because the stamps issued by the Order are not recognised by the UPU, and are only valid on mail to countries which recognise SMOM and have signed postal agreements with the Order.

Malteser International is its worldwide relief corps.

 
suze
693607.  Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:51 pm Reply with quote

High end stamp dealers are not interested in them, no. That's because high end collectors - those for whom philately is an investment as much as a hobby, and those who enter competitions - don't want them. (Stamps whose existence cannot be justified by real postal use under UPU jurisdiction are frowned upon by this kind of collector.)

On the other hand, the sort of collector who wants a stamp from everywhere that puts out stamps, especially if the stamps have pretty pictures on, does want them. And since they're not valued by the high end collectors they are cheap, so everyone is happy.

Those stamps are denominated in euros. But the official currency of the SMOM continues to be the Maltese scudo, even though Malta itself ceased to use the scudo in 1825.

 
Zebra57
693620.  Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:27 pm Reply with quote

Collectors term stamps like SMOM as "cinderella" stamps.

 
Zebra57
694529.  Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:10 pm Reply with quote

The island of St Croix now part of the US Virgin Islands was once ruled by SMOM.

"The island was owned by the Knights of Malta after being bequeathed by Phillippe de Longvilliers de Poincy, governor of the French colony of St. Kitts in 1660. However, they sold it to the French West India Company five years later. Under Governor Dubois, the colony became profitable with over 90 plantations established, growing such crops as tobacco, cotton, sugar cane, and indigo. After Dubois's death, the colony declined and Europeans abandoned the island until 1733 when it was sold to the Danish West India and Guinea Company."
(Wiki)

 

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