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Alexander Howard
1412651.  Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:03 am Reply with quote

A bit raw, I know, but we can all pray that by the time the series comes out, peace will reign.

I was looking through some online archive copies of the London Gazette, from the 1690s and afterwards: at that time the Gazette was not just a list of bankruptcies but had foreign news, at a time of continuous war. There were numerous references to Russia, as well as to "the Ukraine" and "Ukrainia".

The references to "Russia" did not seem right, until I realised they were referring to the Russian-speaking parts of Poland-Lithuania; possibly what came to be known as White Russia (Belarus); perhaps someone of Polish descent could say. The kingdom we now call Russia appears as 'Muscovy'.

The "Revolt of the Cossack in Ukrania" reported in 1718 shows not all was quiet after Mazeppa was quelled.

The original chief city of Russia was, of course Kiev.

 
tetsabb
1412655.  Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:05 am Reply with quote

Great Russian hero, Alexandrr Nevsky was prince of Kiyvsky Rus.

 
CB27
1412660.  Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:08 pm Reply with quote

The question of course being, should Russia have always been a vassal of Ukraine, rather than the way the Russians have forced it?

 
suze
1412662.  Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:14 pm Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
The references to "Russia" did not seem right, until I realised they were referring to the Russian-speaking parts of Poland-Lithuania; possibly what came to be known as White Russia (Belarus); perhaps someone of Polish descent could say. The kingdom we now call Russia appears as 'Muscovy'.


The Tsardom of Russia (Русское царство) was formed in 1547 when Ivan IV Groznyj ("Ivan the Terrible") annexed assorted territories which had previously been ruled by the Golden Horde into the Grand Duchy of Moscow (Великое княжество Московское).

But, and as you say, this polity was generally known as Muscovy in the west for a couple of centuries longer. Its next expansion was the Wild Fields (Дикое Поле), a sparsely populated area which had hitherto been essentially bandit country and is by now mostly in Ukraine, under Ekaterina II Alekseevna ("Catherine the Great") in the 1780s. Then came the III Rozbiór (Third Partition of Poland) in 1795, which brought what are now Belarus and most of Lithuania under Muscovite rule, and from then on the name Russia is usual.

So yes, a pre-1795 reference to Russia in English probably meant that Russian-speaking territory which was until 1795 under Polish rule. While the name White Russia is a direct translation of Belarus, it doesn't always mean the same thing and so some care is needed. Some sources consider this 1795 territory to be White Russia, but others call that territory Black Russia (or Black Ruthenia) and use White for the pre-existing Muscovite lands. Red Russia was Kievan Rus, ie the "original Russia" which is by now Ukraine.

Approximately. That region is complicated.

 

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