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The Road Haulage Problem

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PDR
1390948.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:52 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Or will barbados come along in a moment and tell me that I'm just a whinging Remoaner and the government is right on top of the situation?


Based on recent performance he'll probably claim that it was only remainers who wanted to stop EU truck drivers coming over here anyway, so it scores as a brexiteer win. Four legs good, two legs BETTER!!

PDR

 
Alexander Howard
1390952.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:29 am Reply with quote

I will step in and say that truckers have been punished mightily over many years by EU Regulations, so that they are under constant threat of prosecution for petty things, with a consequent suspension of their licence, which means unemployment, which makes it a very unattractive job. Mix that with our home-grown civil service's habit of gold-plating everything that Brussels produced and our regulators' excess of zeal compared with those in France, and you wonder why there are any lorry drivers at all.

Brexit is an opportunity to dump the worst of those regulations and take a more sensible approach to enforcement of what we keep.

International truckers are still freely passing back and forth across the Channel, and if you head out on the highway you will not see a drop in Polish and Lithuanian plated lorries out there, but in Europe too they are desperately short of drivers.

The demographic crisis in drivers has been looming for many years, irrespective of Brexit or COVID - COVID was the last straw for many, hence the apparent suddenness of what had to come anyway. Brexit is part of a solution.

 
PDR
1390958.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:04 am Reply with quote

The only problem with that post is that it's completely untrue in almost every respect, and it cynically misrepresents the situation (in respect to european drivers) to promote the usual vile agenda. Newspeak is alive and well.

FWIW - it's nothing to do with "international truckers still freely passing back and forth across the Channel". Long-haul freight isn't a problem. The problem (as I am sure you are well aware, but are deliberately misrepresenting) is with short-haul truck drivers - people who drive trucks from depots to shops & supermarkets and tankers to fuel stations. These people live and work inside the UK, so (ever since the brexiteer fuckwits like you and barby broke the whole basis of trade without having a replacement) they need visas to do so if we are looking to them to continue supplementing our national shortfall in HGV drivers. This has been obvious for some months.

But despite this the Government has done nothing other than occasionally look up from reading their copy of Mendacious Racist Despot Monthly* to state that they will NEVER grant extra visas to any of those nasty smelly European drivers.

Then someone points out that if they don't do something pronto they will be the party responsible for a Christmas that could make the winter of discontent look like a mild inconvenience, so in utter panic they do another U-turn.

But they can't even get that right. They are offering a 3-month visa to HGV drivers. Even assuming they can process any of these visas before the middle of the next ice age (which would be optimistic, given this government's general ineptitude in everything it touches) who is going to quit their job in europe where they are already offering better conditions and incomes to come over here (leaving wife, family and loved ones behind because they're not included in the visas) for a three month contract with no NHS access and no residence rights?

Time for the Brexiteer Fuckwits to take personal responsibility for their actions. Their homes, possessions and bank accounts should be immediately sequestered to pay for the mess they made. That's only fair, surely?

PDR

* Even the august edition with the wipe-clean scratch & sniff pull-out Boris in a mankini centrefold )

 
Brock
1390970.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:47 am Reply with quote

PDR wrote:
I learned today that the problem is being compounded by a backlog of more than 250,000 license applications at the DVA because the Government has made a complete hash of overseeing the Agency. It seems that the Boris Mendocracy can't even run the basic organs of the state.


Where does that figure of 250,000 come from?

According to a report in yesterday's "i", based on figures from the DVSA (Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency), there were 70,288 tests carried out from April 2019 to March 2020. That figure fell to 27,630 in the financial year 2020-21, not because of Government incompetence, but because test centres were closed for several months owing to the Covid pandemic.

According to this article, the backlog as of May this year was 28,000 - nothing like what you're claiming. I don't deny that there's a serious problem, but please don't exaggerate it.

 
Brock
1390971.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:02 am Reply with quote

And from another article in the same paper: "Around 14,000 EU HGV drivers left employment in the UK in the 12 months to June 2020, and only 600 have returned in the past year [ONS figures]. The Road Haulage Association estimates that up to 20,000 HGV drivers from the EU left during the Brexit process".

So it seems to me that Covid and Brexit have both made substantial contributions to the shortage. Of course, when the Covid pandemic struck, the Government had the option of extending the Brexit transition period for a year or even two years, and chose not to take it (a point that I haven't seen made anywhere else).

 
barbados
1390972.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:04 am Reply with quote

They are also only 3 weeks behind for new issue provisional vocational licenses, whcih considering the Civil Service (the ones who the DVLA work for) are still not fully returned to full office working, which again would suggest that the problem is not one that is of the government’s making.

 
Brock
1390973.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 am Reply with quote

Well, it is and it isn't. They couldn't have seen Covid coming; but, as I said above, they could have extended the Brexit transition period so that the inevitable consequences of the two wouldn't suddenly arrive at the same time. (It would have broken a manifesto pledge, but as we've seen more recently, they clearly couldn't give a toss about that.)

 
barbados
1390974.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:27 am Reply with quote

How much actually os down to Brexit?
We didn’t leave a month ago, or two months. There are much bigger issues at play here.

 
PDR
1390975.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:58 am Reply with quote

Brock wrote:

Where does that figure of 250,000 come from?


Yesterday's Any Answers and the RHA

Quote:

According to a report in yesterday's "i", based on figures from the DVSA (Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency), there were 70,288 tests carried out from April 2019 to March 2020. That figure fell to 27,630 in the financial year 2020-21, not because of Government incompetence, but because test centres were closed for several months owing to the Covid pandemic.


You're talking about driving tests - the backlog is in the renewal/revalidation of the CPC and medical every 5 years. These are currently taking months, and drivers cannot drive HGVs while waiting for the renewal.

PDR

 
barbados
1390976.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:08 am Reply with quote

PDR wrote:


You're talking about driving tests - the backlog is in the renewal/revalidation of the CPC and medical every 5 years. These are currently taking months, and drivers cannot drive HGVs while waiting for the renewal.

PDR

Which is why Secion 88 of the road traffic act is there for.
Quote:
If you hold a Group 2 (bus or lorry) licence, your entitlement has not been suspended, revoked or refused by a traffic commissioner.

If your license has been revoked or refused by a traffic commissioner, then you really shouldn’t be driving anyway should you?

 
Brock
1390977.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:33 am Reply with quote

PDR wrote:

You're talking about driving tests - the backlog is in the renewal/revalidation of the CPC and medical every 5 years. These are currently taking months, and drivers cannot drive HGVs while waiting for the renewal.


Apologies - I misunderstood.

barbados wrote:
How much actually is down to Brexit?


I've already given you figures from the ONS (14,000) and the RHA's estimate (20,000). Which one you believe is up to you.

 
barbados
1390978.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:38 am Reply with quote

Do the ONS not suggest a shortage of 800 (1400 left, 600 came in)?
But, even if it was brexit related, that was 3 months ago, there hasn’t been an issue with fuel until last week.

 
Brock
1390979.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:41 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
Do the ONS not suggest a shortage of 800 (1400 left, 600 came in)?


No. 14,000 - 600 = 13,400, not 800. If you can't tell the difference between 14,000 and 1400 I don't think there's much point in discussing this.

barbados wrote:

But, even if it was brexit related, that was 3 months ago, there hasn’t been an issue with fuel until last week.


The driver shortage didn't start last week. The effects of it have been seen in various industries before now - it just happens to be hitting the fuel distribution industry particularly hard at the moment.

I suspect that the reason we haven't seen worse shortages before now is that demand was artificially depressed owing to the lockdown, but that's just guesswork.

 
barbados
1390980.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:46 am Reply with quote

Apologies misread your post, that still doesn’t explain why a shortage in June has had no impact until the end of September
I would suggest that a return to the opening post suggests wher the problem lies.

 
PDR
1390981.  Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:52 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
PDR wrote:


You're talking about driving tests - the backlog is in the renewal/revalidation of the CPC and medical every 5 years. These are currently taking months, and drivers cannot drive HGVs while waiting for the renewal.

PDR

Which is why Secion 88 of the road traffic act is there for.
Quote:
If you hold a Group 2 (bus or lorry) licence, your entitlement has not been suspended, revoked or refused by a traffic commissioner.

If your license has been revoked or refused by a traffic commissioner, then you really shouldn’t be driving anyway should you?


Section 88 only applies to the licence, not the CPC renewal.

PDR

 

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