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Who can see what Qi on TV and when?

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Brock
1380899.  Wed May 05, 2021 9:32 am Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:

It wasn't until 2 November 1936 that the BBC started broadcasting "regular" high-definition programmes from Alexandra Palace to the London area.


That's not disputed. There were regular television broadcasts using the Baird system previously to that, which is why the BBC always includes the words "high-definition" when referring to the service from Alexandra Palace.

Quote:
I guess it all depends on how you define a "regular TV service", and whether "experimental" broadcasts really count.


Here is the earliest Radio Times listing that I can find for a television broadcast - 11pm on 8 January 1934:

https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/page/8f893b3c0c07404ca7a835183c604d21

Tonight's Television: By the Baird Process
Cal McCord, The Comical, Cordial Cowboy
Annette Keith, Songs and Dances
Syd and Max Harrison, Britain's Wonder Tap and Acrobatic Dancers
(Vision, 261.6 m.; Sound, 398.9 m.)

Nothing "experimental" about it that I can see from the listing.

 
dr.bob
1380900.  Wed May 05, 2021 9:36 am Reply with quote

Other interesting snippets from the Science and Media museum article linked above:

John Logie Baird first managed to record a TV signal on 20 September 1927. The signal was recorded onto an ordinary 78 rpm gramophone record. Baird called this "Phonovision".

The first colour TV was demonstrated by Baird on 3 July 1928, and the first 3D TV just over a month later (there really is nothing new under the sun!).

In 1935, there was a debate about the merits of competing new "High Definition" TV systems, promising an incredible 240 lines of TV signal! :)

When the BBC started their regular broadcasts in 1936, there were two non-compatible systems currently in use, so the broadcasts alternated between them on alternate weeks.

As some people hereabouts are probably old enough to remember, BBC2 was supposed to be launched on 20 April 1964 with a gala night of special programming. However, a huge power cut in West London meant that the launch had to be cancelled. Instead BBC2 first broadcast the following morning with an episode of Play School, which strikes me as a good way to start :)

BBC2 was the first channel to air regular colour broadcasts on 1 July 1967. As many of you probably know, this was while the channel was being run by David Attenborough. He chose to cover the Wimbledon championships in colour since it was the easiest way to generate many hours of content using a small number of new-fangled (i.e. expensive) colour cameras.

 
dr.bob
1380901.  Wed May 05, 2021 9:42 am Reply with quote

Brock wrote:
Here is the earliest Radio Times listing that I can find for a television broadcast - 11pm on 8 January 1934:
<snip>
Nothing "experimental" about it that I can see from the listing.


That's a fair point. We can delete the "experimental" tag. However, looking at that website shows TV listings for the following dates:

8 Jan
9 Jan
10 Jan
15 Jan
16 Jan
17 Jan
19 Jan
22 Jan
23 Jan
24 Jan
26 Jan
12 Feb
13 Feb

Does that count as a "regular TV service"?

 
Brock
1380903.  Wed May 05, 2021 9:52 am Reply with quote

I'll return to that issue in due course, but I have to correct you on this:

dr.bob wrote:

As some people hereabouts are probably old enough to remember, BBC2 was supposed to be launched on 20 April 1964 with a gala night of special programming. However, a huge power cut in West London meant that the launch had to be cancelled.


Correct so far.

Quote:
Instead BBC2 first broadcast the following morning with an episode of Play School, which strikes me as a good way to start :)


Not true. BBC2 actually broadcast for a few minutes on the evening of 20 April 1964. The first two-and-a-half minutes were without sound. Gerald Priestland read a news bulletin and then repeated it, having been told that the viewers couldn't hear what he was saying. The broadcast was interrupted by telephones ringing and seems to have been a complete disaster - and it's been preserved on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pWsFamLgjU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HrMPxZVQkk

 
dr.bob
1380904.  Wed May 05, 2021 9:54 am Reply with quote

AlmondFacialBar wrote:
The first surge in actual TV set sales came in late May 1953, in time for Lieschen Battenberg's coronation.


Almost exactly the same time as the first major surge in UK TV set sales in time for the coronation of Liz2 on June 2nd the same year!

AlmondFacialBar wrote:
Hence, up to 1983 we literally had 3 channels (3 1/2 if you were lucky enough to live in an area of intersecting footprints like I did)


If it makes you feel any better, the UK had only 3 channels until 2 November 1982 when Channel 4 launched. More channels didn't arrive until the launch of Sky TV on 6 February 1989.

 
Brock
1380905.  Wed May 05, 2021 10:06 am Reply with quote

Returning to the issue of when the first "regular" television transmissions started, perhaps this is the most comprehensive article:

Quote:
22nd August is the anniversary of the day in 1932 when television transmissions by the low-definition, 30-line Baird process began to be devised and produced by the BBC – when BBC television proper was born.

Previous broadcasts were under the control of the Baird Television Co. Ltd. ‘at whose disposal the BBC placed its transmitters in the interest of experiment’. The London National wavelength (261.3 metres) and the Midland Regional wavelength (398.9 metres) were used for vision and sound respectively.

Starting on 30th September 1929, the Baird Television Company had broadcast programmes from its Long Acre premises. At first only one transmitter was available, on top of Selfridges in Oxford Street, so programmes consisted of two minute chunks of vision followed by two minutes of sound, the whole programmes lasting half an hour. After five months, a second transmitter was brought into service so that sound and vision could be transmitted simultaneously (which must have been a relief to all concerned). Some sources quote the date for this advance as 30th March 1930, but this was a Sunday on which no television transmissions took place (and would not until 1938).

At 11am on Monday 31st March 1930 the first synchronised television programme went out (although Radio Times states that this transmission was on 261.3 metres only…) Sadly at the moment there seems to be no record surviving of who took part in the programme. The BBC did not publish such details in Radio Times, presumably because artists were contracted by the Baird Company, although some newspapers did give details.

The first date for which any artist details are available is 10th April 1930, when the Daily Mirror reported that the performers would be soubrette Ouida MacDermott, soprano Gwen Stella, and Lulu Stanley. Miss Stanley, a singer (billed elsewhere as a soubrette and dancer), had also taken part (unbilled) in the first official transmission on 30th September 1929. As with all transmissions under the auspices of the Baird Company, other than the occasional press report afterwards, it’s hard to be certain that the artists billed actually did take part – unless anyone out there has a relative who watched and took notes…?

There were no television transmissions after 17th June and until 22nd August 1932 while the BBC took over, although Radio Times still billed transmissions until 1st July.


So 22nd August 1932 is the date when the Baird transmissions came under the auspices of the BBC. Is this perhaps the best date to choose?

 
AlmondFacialBar
1380906.  Wed May 05, 2021 10:12 am Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:
AlmondFacialBar wrote:
The first surge in actual TV set sales came in late May 1953, in time for Lieschen Battenberg's coronation.


Almost exactly the same time as the first major surge in UK TV set sales in time for the coronation of Liz2 on June 2nd the same year!


😂

Oh, fun fact about Irish TV - RTÉ very much kicked in the still on-going separation of church and state here thanks to the famed The Bishop And The Nightie Incident in 1966. That incident occurred on the Late Late Show (now the longest running live TV show on earth or some such) during a game of Mr and Mrs. Gay Byrne, the host probably best known to modern UK audiences for asking the question that triggered Sir Stephen of Fry's evil god rant and ultimately led to the repeal of the blasphemy paragraph in Bunreacht na hÉireann, asked the couple about the type of nightie the wife had worn on their wedding night and the wife replied that she couldn't remember but, given the night that was in it, she probably hadn't worn one at all. That caused the then Bishop of Clonfert in Galway, Thomas Ryan, to denounce RTÉ from the pulpit for broadcasting unspeakable feelth (because as Oliver J. Flanagan, TD, uttered so correctly, there was no sex in Ireland before television) and get his secretary to pen a sharply worded letter telling them to apologise. So what did Gaybo (a staunch Catholic, btw) do, for the first time in the history of any media outlet in the history of the Irish state and with the full backing of his employer? Politely, but firmly told him to fuck off by pointing out that the Late Late was indeed a late show designed for adult viewing. Over the 55 years since, Ireland has come a fair long way in becoming a secular, pluralist society, so bravo for starting it, uncle Gaybo!

Oh, and, as for the top third of this island - they only started getting UK TV in colour in 1970 and it took a full 8 years for it to become available all across the region. Those who were lucky (or Catholic) enough to receive RTÉ were a bit ahead of their otherwise affiliated neighbours in that.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar


Last edited by AlmondFacialBar on Wed May 05, 2021 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total

 
suze
1380913.  Wed May 05, 2021 11:49 am Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:
BBC2 was the first channel to air regular colour broadcasts on 1 July 1967. As many of you probably know, this was while the channel was being run by David Attenborough. He chose to cover the Wimbledon championships in colour since it was the easiest way to generate many hours of content using a small number of new-fangled (i.e. expensive) colour cameras.


For comparable reasoms, David Attenborough is sometimes credited as the man who made snooker into a big sport.

Professional snooker had existed since the 20s, but by the late 60s it had a decidedly low profile. There were only half a dozen professional players, and the most recent world's championship had been played in the back room of a working men's club in Bolton rather tnan in a theatre with the world's media watching. It attracted about as much attention from the general public as does the world's croquet championship*.

But then came Mr Attenborough, looking for things that were fairly easy to broadcast and worked a whole lot better in colour than in black and white. The rest, as they say, is history.


* The good husband once saw part of an Ashes test match at croquet, by accident. It was being played on a lawn adjacent to St Albans Cricket Club, and he admits that he got told off by his captain for misfielding because he'd actually been watching the croquet when the batsman hit the ball.

 
Brock
1380914.  Wed May 05, 2021 11:54 am Reply with quote

AlmondFacialBar wrote:

Oh, and, as for the top third of this island - they only started getting UK TV in colour in 1970 and it took a full 8 years for it to become available all across the region.


Interesting, because I'd always believed that the Channel Islands were the last place to get ITV in colour:

"In July [1976], Lady Plowden paid an official check out to inaugurate a complete colour television service to the Channel Islands – the last part of the IBA Network to convert to colour."

http://www.channelonline.tv/our-history/

However, I now learn that the Brougher Mountain transmitter didn't convert to colour until July 1978.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1380920.  Wed May 05, 2021 12:03 pm Reply with quote

Brock wrote:
AlmondFacialBar wrote:

Oh, and, as for the top third of this island - they only started getting UK TV in colour in 1970 and it took a full 8 years for it to become available all across the region.


Interesting, because I'd always believed that the Channel Islands were the last place to get ITV in colour:

"In July [1976], Lady Plowden paid an official check out to inaugurate a complete colour television service to the Channel Islands – the last part of the IBA Network to convert to colour."

http://www.channelonline.tv/our-history/

However, I now learn that the Brougher Mountain transmitter didn't convert to colour until July 1978.


Weirdly, I vaguely remembered that from a Smash Hits interview with Feargal Sharkey around the time of A Good Heart. Apparently in the early days of the Undertones he had a day job delivering tellies and colour had just become all the rage in Derry.

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
tetsabb
1380926.  Wed May 05, 2021 1:13 pm Reply with quote

When I bought my first flat in 1983, I saved money by buying a small b/w TV, which suited me fine.
Then some friends gave me a larger colour one that had no sound, so they sat side by side on a low table so I could watch in colour, but still hear. Hill Street Blues in colour was so much better.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1380928.  Wed May 05, 2021 1:25 pm Reply with quote

tetsabb wrote:
When I bought my first flat in 1983, I saved money by buying a small b/w TV, which suited me fine.
Then some friends gave me a larger colour one that had no sound, so they sat side by side on a low table so I could watch in colour, but still hear. Hill Street Blues in colour was so much better.


I had a similar arrangement in my first apartment as a student. My granny had recently passed, so I inherited her big Blaupunkt set that had an immaculate picture, but no tone and my parents had finally got a proper full-size table top set, so their old 17" portable with the shitty picture was also going begging. Hence I stacked one on top of the other on the hideous fake fireplace and, hey presto, one working telly!

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
jaygeemack
1380937.  Wed May 05, 2021 4:31 pm Reply with quote

Margaret Baird (nee Albu), John Logie Baird’s widow, lived in a care home in Hamilton, Lanarkshire until her death aged 89 in 1996.

I can imagine a conversation, “What did your husband do for a living?” “He invented television.”

Logie Baird Primary School in Helensburgh is known locally as Yogi Bear Primary.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1380940.  Wed May 05, 2021 4:34 pm Reply with quote

jaygeemack wrote:
Margaret Baird (nee Albu), John Logie Baird’s widow, lived in a care home in Hamilton, Lanarkshire until her death aged 89 in 1996.

I can imagine a conversation, “What did your husband do for a living?” “He invented television.”


Reply from the nearest staff member: "Sure he did, sweetheart. Now here are your pills."


:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
suze
1380943.  Wed May 05, 2021 5:01 pm Reply with quote

jaygeemack wrote:
Logie Baird Primary School in Helensburgh is known locally as Yogi Bear Primary.


Oh good, it wasn't just me then!

I was probably about 8 when I first heard the name of John Logie Baird - and yes, I immediately dubbed him John Yogi Bear.


His playing career was before my time, but one of the big names in baseball used to be a gentleman named Lawrence Berra (1925-2015), who was commonly known as Yogi Berra. The nickname is said to have arisen because Mr Berra was given to sitting on the ground in the lotus position while waiting his turn at bat. He was known for his wisecracks to media, and among other things is believed to have been the first to say "It ain't over til it's over".

It is the official position of Hanna-Barbera Productions, Inc, that the character Yogi Bear (who was created twelve years after Mr Berra began his career in professional baseball) is not named after him. It's just a name they thought up, without even noticing that it was rather similar to the name of a well known baseballist, honest.

I don't think anyone has ever really believed it, but making that statement was a condition of Mr Berra dropping a lawsuit against Hanna-Barbera.

 

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