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dr.bob
1390490.  Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:31 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
For me I donít feel comfortable sat in a metal tube based on research led by the people who are interested in getting you sat in a metal tube


Why is Harvardís T.H. Chan School of Public Health interested in getting you to fly on a plane?

barbados wrote:
Iím not entirely sure why you have been so strongly against the decisions Iíve made, yet you are quite happy to come to you conclusion - using similar ďresearchĒ


Jennie's research seems to involve reading independent analyses of the real-world figures. Your research appears to involve grabbing random studies from 3 years ago that have little relevance to the subject under discussion.

Here's an experiment you might want to carry out. If you're so convinced that air travel poses a significant risk of contracting covid, why not go and look for some studies which show a connection between the two. After all, in the discussion about festivals, I provided a link to a report about a number of cases which were almost certainly linked to the festival in Cornwall. If the risk is real, it should be possible to find evidence to support it.

Usually people say that it's hard to link an infection to a specific event, but that's clearly not always true. The one case where it would be easy to make the link is if an infection was contracted on a plane, since people have to test before and after the flight and, in some cases, have to isolate in a hotel while they're waiting to see if they've picked up an infection.

 
barbados
1390530.  Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:48 pm Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:

Why is Harvardís T.H. Chan School of Public Health interested in getting you to fly on a plane?


Because Harvard's T.H Chan School of Public Health are not the only stakeholders in the report.
dr.bob wrote:

Jennie's research seems to involve reading independent analyses of the real-world figures. Your research appears to involve grabbing random studies from 3 years ago that have little relevance to the subject under discussion.

If that is good for you, then fine - as I said - there are other stakeholders involved in the report with a vested interest, but the decision is a personal one - if you think it is a reliable report, then go ahead and book your flight.
dr.bob wrote:

Here's an experiment you might want to carry out. If you're so convinced that air travel poses a significant risk of contracting covid, why not go and look for some studies which show a connection between the two. After all, in the discussion about festivals, I provided a link to a report about a number of cases which were almost certainly linked to the festival in Cornwall. If the risk is real, it should be possible to find evidence to support it.

I did, and posted it here, I also responded to a question related to the link provided
dr.bob wrote:


Usually people say that it's hard to link an infection to a specific event, but that's clearly not always true. The one case where it would be easy to make the link is if an infection was contracted on a plane, since people have to test before and after the flight and, in some cases, have to isolate in a hotel while they're waiting to see if they've picked up an infection.

It isn't always true, one such claim
Quote:
To date, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has not confirmed a single case of COVID-19 transmission on a U.S. airplane.
I would suggest is one of those claims - If you were to test positive tomorrow it would be nigh on impossible for you to tell where you picked up the virus, because you can pick it up anywhere, from anyone, then pass it on without even knowing you have done so. So I would suggest that although there are no "confirmed" cases, that doesn't mean there have been no cases - again, that is an interpretation on the result of the report - you are free to take it that flying is indeed safer than grocery shopping.
The report that Jenny linked to, from Delta Airlines media team, suggests that
Quote:
The reportís findings also support Deltaís extensive cleaning practices, including our industry-leading commitment to electrostatic spraying of high-touch surfaces using high-grade disinfectant between flights on a daily basis. The cabin interior on every Delta flight is thoroughly sanitized prior to boarding using electrostatic sprayers Ė including lavatories.

I'm tempted to refer you to here where it was noted that
Quote:
While scientists cannot rule out the possibility that the disease is spread through touching infected surfaces, there is very little evidence that this actually happens

That would suggest that there is a small discrepancy between the report and the WHO.

Like I said, and I have said on numerous occasions, if you think that a certain course of action is appropriate, then that is perfectly fine - but if you are uncomfortable about something, then that is fine too - for you it is sharing a park with others, for me it is sitting in a metal tube - for me it isn't a problem whatever you decide, why is it a such a problem for you?

 
Jenny
1390555.  Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:12 pm Reply with quote

barbados wrote:

Like I said, and I have said on numerous occasions, if you think that a certain course of action is appropriate, then that is perfectly fine - but if you are uncomfortable about something, then that is fine too - for you it is sharing a park with others, for me it is sitting in a metal tube - for me it isn't a problem whatever you decide, why is it a such a problem for you?


Because it's not about you and the risk to you. It's about the risk you pose, even as a vaccinated person, of transmitting an asymptomatic infection to other people whose vaccination and health status you have no idea of.

 
barbados
1390566.  Tue Sep 21, 2021 6:52 pm Reply with quote

Jenny wrote:
barbados wrote:

Like I said, and I have said on numerous occasions, if you think that a certain course of action is appropriate, then that is perfectly fine - but if you are uncomfortable about something, then that is fine too - for you it is sharing a park with others, for me it is sitting in a metal tube - for me it isn't a problem whatever you decide, why is it a such a problem for you?


Because it's not about you and the risk to you. It's about the risk you pose, even as a vaccinated person, of transmitting an asymptomatic infection to other people whose vaccination and health status you have no idea of.

Quote:
It won't be a problem for me.

If I can move away from others, please tell me what risk do I pose to them?
Regardless of otherís vaccination or health status, far and away the single most effective way to protect is to keep your distance.

 
Efros
1390575.  Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:04 am Reply with quote

A kid in one of my classes tested positive yesterday. I haven't seen him since last Thursday. He is, however, a habitual nasal peek-a-boo merchant and our nurse is busy tracking down and banishing contacts. We had 4 cases reported yesterday.

 
barbados
1390582.  Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:16 am Reply with quote

They keep cropping up near you donít they Efros

 
Efros
1390586.  Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:13 am Reply with quote

Hardly surprising, we got near 60% unvaccinated kids in the HS, 80% in the middle school and 100% in the elementary and primary schools. When they're out of school I can guarantee that for the most part no masks are in their life. All we can do is take action when confirmed cases crop up.

 
Jenny
1390622.  Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:26 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:

If I can move away from others, please tell me what risk do I pose to them?
Regardless of otherís vaccination or health status, far and away the single most effective way to protect is to keep your distance.


Since you mentioned attending football matches, where your claim is that fans at that match behave in a decorous way unlike that of any other football match I have seen, and now you mention being able to move away from others, I can only conclude that you must support the most unpopular team ever.

 
barbados
1390626.  Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:52 am Reply with quote

Well weíre no Hull City or Watford if thatís what you mean
(Although not sure how it is relevant)

 
dr.bob
1390696.  Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:34 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
Because Harvard's T.H Chan School of Public Health are not the only stakeholders in the report.


If you want to say that Harvard's T.H Chan School of Public Health were influenced in their study and produced results that were biased in order to please their funders, that is a very serious allegation, particularly in the time of a global pandemic. If that is what you want to say, then you should have the courage to say it outright and not hide behind weaselly words and vague implications.

If that's not what you want to say, then it has no place in this discussion.

barbados wrote:
dr.bob wrote:

Here's an experiment you might want to carry out. If you're so convinced that air travel poses a significant risk of contracting covid, why not go and look for some studies which show a connection between the two.

I did, and posted it here, I also responded to a question related to the link provided


You posted a link to a 3-year-old study that had nothing to do with covid-19 or the additional mitigations that airlines are currently employing.

If I'm mistaken, and you did actually post a study that shows a connection between covid-19 and recent flights, I must've missed that. Please post it again.

barbados wrote:
dr.bob wrote:
Usually people say that it's hard to link an infection to a specific event, but that's clearly not always true. The one case where it would be easy to make the link is if an infection was contracted on a plane, since people have to test before and after the flight and, in some cases, have to isolate in a hotel while they're waiting to see if they've picked up an infection.


If you were to test positive tomorrow it would be nigh on impossible for you to tell where you picked up the virus, because you can pick it up anywhere, from anyone, then pass it on without even knowing you have done so.


So you're entirely ignoring the salient point I made about testing before and after flights, particularly of people who are require to isolate in hotels after the flight. That's fairly typical behaviour for discussions with you.

barbados wrote:
So I would suggest that although there are no "confirmed" cases, that doesn't mean there have been no cases - again, that is an interpretation on the result of the report


It's an "interpretation" that fits your pre-conceived ideas and entirely ignores several relevant factors, such as the fact that in many cases it is possible to track certain infections and that the report does talk about various infections on various planes and how they can be mitigated against.

barbados wrote:
The report that Jenny linked to, from Delta Airlines media team,


I would suggest you read the actual report from Harvard's T.H Chan School of Public Health rather than an executive summary from an airline's media team.

barbados wrote:
That would suggest that there is a small discrepancy between the report and the WHO.


The report itself notes that "The survival time of SARS-CoV-2 on surfaces may be overestimated, given the experimental conditions used in these early studies used very high concentrations of infectious viral particles applied to very small surface areas". No discrepancy there.

barbados wrote:
for me it isn't a problem whatever you decide, why is it a such a problem for you?


For me it isn't a problem whatever you decide as long as I don't have to come into contact with you. It may be a problem for people around you if your poor decision making results in them becoming infected.

I am merely pointing out that your decision process is flawed and ignores swathes of relevant evidence in favour of agreeing with your pre-conceived ideas. In exactly the same way I would point out you were wrong if you stated that you had decided not to be vaccinated because a friend of Nicki Minaj's cousin claimed it had caused his testicles to swell up.

 
Efros
1390724.  Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:35 am Reply with quote

Seems a COVID infection can cause new allergic responses.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/health-58651244

 
Jenny
1390740.  Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:37 am Reply with quote

That link led to this one, which is worth watching.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-58569849

Some people are just idiots I guess.

 
barbados
1390759.  Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:03 pm Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:

If you want to say that Harvard's T.H Chan School of Public Health were influenced in their study and produced results that were biased in order to please their funders, that is a very serious allegation, particularly in the time of a global pandemic. If that is what you want to say, then you should have the courage to say it outright and not hide behind weaselly words and vague implications.

That is not what I said. There is was no weaselly words, and no vague implications. I would prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to declaring that "flying is safer than grocery shopping". Are you suggesting we should believe everything we are being told?
dr.bob wrote:

If that's not what you want to say, then it has no place in this discussion.

There is no reason to block anything from an open discussion, just because you want to believe everything blindly it shouldn't compel others to be less vigilant than comfortable.
dr.bob wrote:


You posted a link to a 3-year-old study that had nothing to do with covid-19 or the additional mitigations that airlines are currently employing.

If I'm mistaken, and you did actually post a study that shows a connection between covid-19 and recent flights, I must've missed that. Please post it again.

I posted a link to a study that was carried out when air transport was open, it referred to all airborne viral transmission. Are you suggesting that we should ignore detailed studies because they contradict what you would like them to say?
dr.bob wrote:
Usually people say that it's hard to link an infection to a specific event, but that's clearly not always true. The one case where it would be easy to make the link is if an infection was contracted on a plane, since people have to test before and after the flight and, in some cases, have to isolate in a hotel while they're waiting to see if they've picked up an infection.

You might like to return to Jenny's post 1390182
Quote:
don't need to take a covid test before departure
Are you suggesting Jenny was not telling the truth? I notice you didn't pull her up on it - I wonder why?
dr.bob wrote:

So you're entirely ignoring the salient point I made about testing before and after flights, particularly of people who are require to isolate in hotels after the flight. That's fairly typical behaviour for discussions with you.
It would appear that someone is missing the point.
dr.bob wrote:


I would suggest you read the actual report from Harvard's T.H Chan School of Public Health rather than an executive summary from an airline's media team.

I did, it's how I learned of the other stakeholders in the study.
dr.bob wrote:

For me it isn't a problem whatever you decide as long as I don't have to come into contact with you. It may be a problem for people around you if your poor decision making results in them becoming infected.

If it isn't a problem for you, then why are you continually trying to suggest someone is wrong, without actually having the balls to stand up and offer an opinion on something, because your stock response is, and has always been "I'm not saying ~this~ is correct, just that you are wrong" then when asked what ~is correct~ you never respond.
dr.bob wrote:

I am merely pointing out that your decision process is flawed and ignores swathes of relevant evidence in favour of agreeing with your pre-conceived ideas. In exactly the same way I would point out you were wrong if you stated that you had decided not to be vaccinated because a friend of Nicki Minaj's cousin claimed it had caused his testicles to swell up.

So there we have it, my decision to be more cautious is flawed, because I have looked further into it than you.
As I have said all along, the only person who can decide what they are comfortable with is that person. If you are happy to sit on a plane for six and a quarter hours, then fine - go ahead and do it, safe in the knowledge that the person sat next to you quite possibly hasn't spent the (upto) £150 on a PCR test prior to getting on the plane, in fact - that person walking down the street next to you could be asymptomatic with a variant of the virus previously not present in the UK. If you're happy with that, carry on, for me - I'd rather not thank you very much.

 
Efros
1390775.  Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:11 am Reply with quote

71 schools in Maine are classified as outbreaks by the Maine CDC, that's 10% of the schools. Our school is one of them. This classification is down to the number of cases detected in a given period of time. Currently our school is not seen as the source of the outbreak and there is currently little evidence of spread within the school, the transmission is occurring off school grounds, which means our masking policy appears to be working for now.

 
Awitt
1390804.  Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:22 am Reply with quote

Trio of Melbourne teens creates a website for the data. They've done a better job than any paid government consultants over the last 18 months.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/meet-the-melbourne-kids-helping-australia-track-the-virus-20210924-p58ul0.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0VXH3DzHks1DINkKF2X9rI6pzh23FXf9OLSiFB8k4RqM-6GhEWNLGr67U#Echobox=1632475607

 

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