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Labour Leadership contest

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Who will be the next Labour Leader?
Lisa Nandy
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Sir Keir Starmer
80%
 80%  [ 4 ]
Rebecca Long Bailey
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 5

Prof Wind Up Merchant
1340482.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:23 am Reply with quote

Thought I would start this.

My view is this. Give up being a Socialist movement because that will not win you power. The Tories will be in power forever which is not good.

Learn the lessons from Tony Blair's 3 election victories (1997, 2001 and 2005) and that you can only win elections appealing to the centre ground. We all hate what he did regarding Iraq. Appealing to the left gets you nowhere. Also become a party that supports Brexit not Remain. Have to respect the 2016 referendum. The only way to win back support of the votes lost to the Tories in Leave areas.

Your policies are Economically illiterate. Free Broadband for everyone for example. Absolute tosh. No one will believe this. Telecoms companies will make losses and go under. Scrapping Tuition Fees. Again not credible. Universites will have to make drastic cut backs.

Of the candidates standing Sir Keir Starmer is the strongest so far. My advise to him being a passionate remainer is accept Brexit. That is if he wins.

The winner has to have personality and charisma. Does any of the the 6 candidates have this to compete against Boris?

Labour has a big decision to make. Please make the right one for the UK's sake.

 
suze
1340489.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:21 am Reply with quote

Well, I've voted. As of this moment I'm the only person who has and so it will be obvious who I chose, but I think regular readers could probably have guessed anyway.

A couple of comments on what PWUM writes above. He is quite right to say that a centrist candidate has the best chance of winning a general election, but there probably isn't going to be one of those for five years. Should the Labour Party choose that candidate who is the most likely to win a general election, or that candidate who would be the best Leader of the Opposition? They are not necessarily the same person.

We don't really know how large it is, but there is a significant element within the Labour Party who dismiss Tony Blair as a Conservative and won't vote at all if it considers the next leader also to be a Conservative. That is the element that elected Jeremy Corbyn by a landslide twice, and it will vote for Rebecca Long-Bailey who is currently second favourite.

If it's Keir Starmer who wins, can he afford to ignore that element on the basis that it certainly isn't going to vote for Boris Johnson rather than for him? (Answer: in most of the country, probably yes - but London and Scotland might be difficult. Then again, London and Scotland are difficult for Mr Johnson's government too.)

By the time the new leader takes charge, the leaving of the EU will have happened. But I cannot agree that this means that the new leader must say "And a jolly good thing too". On one level, I won't vote Labour if the new leader does say that. On another level, there might prove to be some mileage in saying unto the government "Shouldn't have left the EU then, should you" whenever a bad thing happens while in opposition. That would work with the voting public of the aforementioned London and Scotland, but not so much elsewhere.

Jess Phillips probably comes the closest of the candidates to being able to out-Boris Boris. At some point she will tell Boris to do the thing that she once told Diane Abbott to do, but while The Guardian will find that highly amusing the rest of the world might not.

In fact, it might be a better strategy not even to try to out-Boris Boris. Rather, give him enough rope and he will hang himself. I reckon there's a probability of about one third that Mr Johnson will be forced to resign as PM between now and the next election, not because of any political crisis but because of a scandal. The scandal will probably involve either sex or an unguarded racist comment, but whatever it is will be down to himself and not to the Labour Party.

 
PDR
1340490.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:50 am Reply with quote

Well I've voted as well now, so people will have to try and work out which vote is mine and which is Suze's

If David Milliband or Hillary Benn (or indeed Tony Blair) had been on the list they'd have probably had my preference (in ascending order), but only if Tyrian Lanister had definitely turned it down.

PDR

 
tetsabb
1340495.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:38 am Reply with quote

Please enlighten me. What did Jess Phillip's tell Diane Abbott to do?

As for Johnson, perhaps we could combine the 2 possible scandals and envisage him trying to goose Michelle Obama?

 
Jenny
1340500.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:30 pm Reply with quote

Well until somebody else votes, I guess my vote is pretty obvious now too!

I take suze's point that the person most likely to win an election isn't necessarily the best person to lead an opposition. Many people would be better than the dismal Corbyn at either though.

 
tetsabb
1340505.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:01 pm Reply with quote

I note the vote is for who "will be" next leader, rather than who you would like to see. I think Jess Phillip's needs a little longer in the limelight, so maybe next time.

 
suze
1340506.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:03 pm Reply with quote

tetsabb wrote:
Please enlighten me. What did Jess Phillips tell Diane Abbott to do?


It is reported that she had a row with Ms Abbott at a Shadow Cabinet meeting, and told Ms Abbott to "fuck off". Mrs Phillips has a reputation as a bit of a potty mouth, so it seems very likely to be true.

 
tetsabb
1340512.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:54 pm Reply with quote

I don't remember being potty-mouthed on HIGNFY. Came over rather well, I thought. I like her a lot, just comes over yet as maybe a bit young and inexperienced. Give her time.

 
Zziggy
1340514.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:04 pm Reply with quote

Prof Wind Up Merchant wrote:
Your policies are Economically illiterate. Free Broadband for everyone for example. Absolute tosh. No one will believe this. Telecoms companies will make losses and go under. Scrapping Tuition Fees. Again not credible. Universites will have to make drastic cut backs.

Why?

Afaics both of those policies are good ideas.

 
Willie
1340515.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:27 pm Reply with quote

Prof Wind Up Merchant wrote:
Also become a party that supports Brexit not Remain. Have to respect the 2016 referendum.


I will never understand that sentiment. Very close to as many people voted against Brexit, why should their choice be disrespected?

Brexit has to happen because due to the vagaries of the UK political system where a party that less than 45% of the vote get a majority of the seats. In fact for all the Tories banging on about the SNP only getting 48% of the vote in Scotland and thus have no mandate for a new referendum, the SNP won a larger share of the vote in Scotland than the Tories got in the whole UK and nobody is saying they don't have a mandate to push forward with minority policies.

The whole of politics at the UK level has been disrespectful to the population ever since Call Me Dave decided that trying to minimise the damage that Farage the Snake Oil Salesman was doing to unity in the Tory party was more important than what was best for the UK.

 
crissdee
1340524.  Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:27 pm Reply with quote

As people who know me will probably have expected, I have not voted, nor is it likely that I will. This is for two reasons;

1) I am so politically unaware, I did not know the position was being thrown open again.

2) I could not in all honesty tell you why any of them are better/worse than any of the others.

FWIW, I would like to see the two main parties lead by people who were unquestionably Socialist and Capitalist (as appropriate).

 
barbados
1340544.  Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:35 am Reply with quote

Itís difficult to tell which one would be best. everyone so far has gone for Kier Starmer, but do we really need another leader of the opposition that has to tell you how hard itís been for him, and how he is just like the man on the street?
Iím not sure I would trust Emily Thornberry - she has a bit of Gordon Brown about her, and is just as likely to come out with a patronising comment just because she didnít like the question being asked - is that the sort of person the Labour Party want in charge?

If I had a vote, and an interest in the whole thing, I would probably put it on Jess Phillips.

 
dr.bob
1340558.  Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:04 am Reply with quote

Zziggy wrote:
Prof Wind Up Merchant wrote:
Your policies are Economically illiterate. Free Broadband for everyone for example. Absolute tosh. No one will believe this. Telecoms companies will make losses and go under. Scrapping Tuition Fees. Again not credible. Universites will have to make drastic cut backs.

Why?

Afaics both of those policies are good ideas.


Quite so. After all, they scrapped tuition fees in Scotland, and none of the Universities here seem to have had to make drastic cut backs.

 
barbados
1340560.  Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:49 am Reply with quote

That is a very bold claim.
I'm no expert, but there has to be a cost to providing university education free from charge for any EU citizen except from Wales, England, and NI. That money has to come from somewhere.

The claim was also that the free broadband offer was a good idea - and while it is nice for the end user to have something for "free" there are costs involved in providing the service. Again, who pays for that, and secondly what happens with the competition requirements that will be required by the EU, and the who will keep the costs down to the people paying for the service?

 
suze
1340562.  Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:09 pm Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:
FWIW, I would like to see the two main parties led by people who were unquestionably Socialist and Capitalist (as appropriate).


I don't think there will ever be a problem with identifying the leader of the Conservative Party as a Capitalist. Now OK, I have heard Edward Heath dismissed as "a Communist", but i) the person who did so was a Farage Fanboy, and ii) people who hold Mr Heath's positions are no longer welcome in the Conservative Party at all, let alone as leader of it.

But Jeremy Corbyn is really the only Labour leader of the last thirty years who can seriously be described as a Socialist. Tony Blair was quite simply a Conservative, but none of the other recent leaders had many real pretensions to socialism either.

Whether we like this or not, it has become clear that a Labour Party led by a Socialist cannot win an election. And in any case, the Socialist choice for leader of the Labour Party on this occasion is Rebecca Long-Bailey, who is ineligible to be Prime Minister.

 

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