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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

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AlmondFacialBar
189282.  Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:38 am Reply with quote

mckeonj wrote:
AlmondFacialBar wrote:
it's not called annexing, it's called liberating! *tut*

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

You mean like GIs have been 'liberating' women worldwide since 1917?


exactly! :-D and made them democracies of course...

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
sushil_yadav
889735.  Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:48 pm Reply with quote

Food, Clothing & Shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans....... Industrial consumer goods must be eliminated immediately.

Industrial Society is doing research on sustainability after destroying 75 - 90% of Biodiversity and Ecosystems. Nature has already done millions of years of research on sustainability.......Nature has already given us millions of years of proof of sustainability. Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years because their activity was limited to searching for food. Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years [compared to Industrial Society]because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.



For the last 50 years Intellectuals have been debating what is good for Environment......Capitalist Industrial Society, Communist Industrial Society or Socialist Industrial Society?

This is like debating what is good for people.....Capitalist Poison, Communist Poison or Socialist Poison.

Poison kills people.....it does'nt matter who made it ......Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

Industrial Activity kills ecosystems.....It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, Transportation Industry, Construction Industry, Recycling Industry, Oil Drilling, Oil Refining, Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network and Shipping Lanes…..they all destroy environment….. It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

American Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…..Russian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Chinese Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems…….Indian Industrial Activity has destroyed ecosystems……Every Industrial Society destroys ecosystems…… It does'nt matter which system runs it.....Capitalism, Communism or Socialism.

In just 250 years Industrial Society has destroyed 75 - 90% of Forests, Wild Animals and Fish Population......Population of Lions, Tigers and Elephants is down to 2 - 5% of what it was 100 years ago......Population of Large Fish in Oceans is down to 10% of what it was 100 years ago.....Industrial Society has poisoned the entire planet with Trillions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical Waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste, Nuclear Waste.....It has killed Trillions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of acres of Fertile Soil with Cement And Concrete.

Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Hunter Gatherer Society did not destroy Environment for a million years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.

Agrarian Society caused very limited destruction of environment over 10,000 years[compared to Industrial Society].......because their activity was limited to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed almost all Ecosystems in just 250 years......because it is destroying environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......And even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.



There is only one cause of environmental destruction......Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are only consequences/ by-products of Industrialization.

Overconsumerism is quite obviously a consequence of Industrialization..... Industrial consumer goods and services would not exist without Industrial Activity.

Overpopulation is also a by-product of Industrialization. The entire world was overbreeding until the middle years of 20th century.....even Western Countries had 5 - 12 children per family[and even more].....and yet population of the world remained low before industrialization because of high death rate, lower life span and shortage of food and water. It was only 1 billion in 1800 AD. India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago, since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions. What was the population of Europe/ America/ West 2000 years ago????......Was it comparable to eastern population of India and China????

Industrialization is the cause of overpopulation and overconsumerism.

Moreover, Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk of population we should take into account population of all animal species, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species. The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species.....but there was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....the combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is Industrialization......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion today ........In the absence of Industrialization world population would only be a small fraction of 7 billion today.

It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.......The combined population of millions of animal species was much greater than present human population.......and yet they did not destroy environment for millions of years because they destroyed environment only for Food.......not for Thousands of Consumer Goods.

The cause of Environmental Destruction is Industrialization / Consumerism.........Not population / overpopulation.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would not destroy environment [And a Hunter_Gatherer Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would cause much lesser environmental destruction than an Industrial Society of 7 billion [And an Agrarian Society would never reach a population of 7 billion]

Industrialization is the cause of Human Overpopulation and Overconsumerism

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

Height of Insanity!

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods must stop immediately.......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.



sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

 
dr.bob
889773.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:33 am Reply with quote

sushil_yadav wrote:
Food, Clothing & Shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.


That's clearly not true. It can provide entertainment, weaponry, and transport as well.

sushil_yadav wrote:
Industrial consumer goods must be eliminated immediately.


Good idea. I suggest you begin by chucking your computer into a skip. We'll wait for you to do it first, then we'll all follow suit. Promise!

sushil_yadav wrote:
Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years because their activity was limited to searching for food.


That's clearly not true. Once primitive organisms started to excrete Oxygen as part of their respiratory cycle, they had a massively damaging effect on the environment. Also, check out the Late Devonian extinction event. Thought to be caused by plant evolution, it caused the deaths of 19% of all families and 50% of all genera.

sushil_yadav wrote:
All Industrial Activity destroys environment......Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Energy Generation Industry


Yeah, that Energy Generation Industry. Bloody solar panels going around destroying the environment. Smash 'em all, I say!

sushil_yadav wrote:
they all destroy environment


This seems to be a rather misleading definition of the word "environment". They don't so much destroy environment as change it. There are many plants, animals, insects, and the like that have adapted very well to living in our modern industrial society and are positively thriving.

sushil_yadav wrote:
Animals did not destroy Environment for millions of years.......because their activity was limited to searching for food.


Errr, didn't you already mention this. You're starting to sound a bit like a ranting loon, now.

sushil_yadav wrote:
There is only one cause of environmental destruction......Industrialization.


That's clearly not true. Do a quick google search on "extinction events" for a list of destructive changes in global environment that predate industrialisation.

sushil_yadav wrote:
Industrialization is the cause of overpopulation


That's clearly not true. In the first 100 years or so of industrialisation, the death rate didn't alter that much. In fact, if anything, it went up thanks to the appalling working conditions in early factories.

The cause of overpopulation is, arguably, better medical care. If you think this is a bad thing, I suggest you throw away any medicines you are taking at the moment.

sushil_yadav wrote:
Moreover, Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.


So overpopulation isn't the problem now? Gee, you're kind of all over the place there.

sushil_yadav wrote:
Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species


That's OK then. If 90% of them are unaffected, that doesn't sound too bad.

sushil_yadav wrote:
Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species.


It's also coincided with the increase of other animal species. That's how the environment works: it adapts to changing circumstances.

sushil_yadav wrote:
The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.


Please provide some references to back up this point.

sushil_yadav wrote:
there was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population


There still is. If you honestly think that the combined population of all other animal species numbers less than 7 billion, then you are woefully misinformed.

sushil_yadav wrote:
What is the cause of human overpopulation??????......It is Industrialization


Well, a) no it isn't, and b) you already said that overpopulation isn't a problem. You might want to try and focus your arguments a little more rationally.

sushil_yadav wrote:
It is not population that destroys environment......It is lifestyle.


I thought it was industrialisation. Make your mind up!

 
Sadurian Mike
889791.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:02 am Reply with quote

1. Elephants 'destroy' the environment by knocking them over.

2. Parasites 'destroy' their environment by weakening and often eventually killing their host.

3. Population explosions are down to improved agriculture, and better hygiene and medicine.

4. Extinction happens naturally. Most of the creatures that are extinct died out long before man appeared, let alone industrialisation.

5. Your posts are too long for the average reader to plough through. Try being more concise.

 
sushil_yadav
889850.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:51 am Reply with quote

Industrial Society has produced Trillions of tonnes of Metal waste,....Trillions of tonnes of Plastic Waste.....Trillions of tonnes of Chemical waste.....Trillions of tonnes of eWaste......Trillions of tonnes of Gaseous waste.......Thousands of tonnes of Nuclear waste......

Did Elephants or Parasites produce this much waste??????

Industrial Fishing, Trillions of tonnes of Industrial Waste flowing into Oceans and thousands of Industrial Activities in the sea and on the shores have decimated fish in the Oceans.......Population of large fish is down to less than 10% of pre-industrial count.

Did Elephants decimate fish in the Oceans??


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

 
swot
889857.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:15 am Reply with quote

Shurely eWaste can be dealt with by employing a "delete" button.

 
Sadurian Mike
889889.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:03 am Reply with quote

sushil_yadav wrote:
Industrial Society has produced Trillions of tonnes of Metal waste,....Trillions of tonnes of Plastic Waste.....Trillions of tonnes of Chemical waste.....Trillions of tonnes of eWaste......Trillions of tonnes of Gaseous waste.......Thousands of tonnes of Nuclear waste......

Did Elephants or Parasites produce this much waste??????

I have no idea but I doubt it. And neither, I suspect, did 'Industrial Society'.

Would you like to provide a respected cite to back up those figures?

Incidentally, I mentioned them because you claimed that animals do not destroy the environment. They obviously do. Therefore you were wrong.

sushil_yadav wrote:
Industrial Fishing, Trillions of tonnes of Industrial Waste flowing into Oceans and thousands of Industrial Activities in the sea and on the shores have decimated fish in the Oceans.......Population of large fish is down to less than 10% of pre-industrial count.

Did Elephants decimate fish in the Oceans??

Again, can you back up those figures?

Why do elephants need to decimate fish to be considered destroyers of the environment? I doubt that many people have sucked the blood from a living creature as do parasites. Therefore, by your logic, they are not destroyers of the environment and should not be considered in this discussion.

By the way, putting things in bold does not make them true.

 
sushil_yadav
890050.  Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:57 pm Reply with quote

Every species destroys environment to some extent. The issue is How Much?????......The issue is Scale and Magnitude of destruction.

Millions of Animal Species destroyed environment for food.....Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed for food.....Agrarian Society destroyed for food, clothing & shelter......Industrial Society has destroyed for food, clothing, shelter plus thousands of consumer goods and services.

Do you need to do research for 1000 years to know who destroyed more environment?????

Do you need to engage in endless Discussion, Debate and Argument to find out who destroyed more environment?????


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment


Last edited by sushil_yadav on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total

 
sushil_yadav
890051.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:02 am Reply with quote

Which animal species destroyed environment with Industrial Activity??????

Mining Industry... Logging Industry.... Energy Generation Industry.... Manufacturing Industry.... Transportation Industry.... Construction Industry... Recycling Industry... Oil Drilling... Oil Refining... Millions of kilometers of Rail & Road network, Shipping Lanes and Air Routes…..they all destroy environment…

Which animal species destroyed environment with these Industrial Activities?????


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

 
sushil_yadav
890053.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:25 am Reply with quote

If we compare the scale and magnitude of environmental destruction of the three human societies we have had on earth we will find :

Hunter_Gatherer society was least destructive.......Agrarian Society was thousands of times more destructive.......Industrial Society is millions of times more destructive.


sushil_yadav
Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

 
Neotenic
890059.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:14 am Reply with quote

In case you haven't noticed, the environment is still here.

And, in any case, nature is hardly benign and benevolent. If you don't believe me, I think there are three words you should consider - volcano, earthquake and tornado.

 
Gavin
890060.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:18 am Reply with quote

SPAM!

 
dr.bob
890125.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:02 am Reply with quote

All animals change their environment.

Sometimes it's to suit themselves: beavers dam rivers and change the environment in a big way upstream of the dam.

Sometimes it's just because they can't control themselves: elephants strip leaves and bark from trees and have a devastating effect on plantlife in the areas in which they live. This is why they are a nomadic species.

Humans are just another species. Because we're more intelligent we're able to change the environment more than other species, but aren't we just another part of the naturally evolving environment?

 
exnihilo
890143.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:55 am Reply with quote

In a nutshell, the OP says we have too many people and too many goods. He offers no solution to the other, except to say the planet is too ickle to support us all and to make all our stuff, and certainly too small to support us in his mad pre-industrial society where we each make our own stuff, and something must be done. Presumable mass extinction. Which, apparently will happen anyway. When pressed for details he simply says he's but one person and we need to fix it ourselves because we in the West are the demons that caused it.

I've just wasted some of my precious "fake lifespan" looking over some of the links the OP suggested - all of which are to his "article" on other sites spanning much of the last decade. In every instance the OP makes a post, vanishes for a bit and then comes back to cut and paste irrelevant "responses" to the replies made by other. In no instance is there any actual engagement with a single point made, just more of the same baseless diatribe eventually coupled with the assertion that everyone else is too stupid, or too in bed with the US, to understand.

In short, it's pointless, it's directionless, and it's thoroughly, thoroughly tedious.

Were it my call, I'd block him, it's got no place on QI.

 
sushil_yadav
890157.  Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:14 am Reply with quote

If you fail to understand the issues it is your problem not mine.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that destroy environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods and Services must stop immediately.....Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.

 

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