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Sentencing and its worth.

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barbados
1326899.  Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:01 am Reply with quote

Just to clarify, it is the cars in front of you that are going on red?

 
dr.bob
1326902.  Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:20 am Reply with quote

Just to clarify, no.

It is the cars coming from the left that are jumping the red light. After their light has turned red and my light has turned green, they continue to drive past the red light even though they should stop behind the line by their traffic light.

I hope that makes it clearer.

 
barbados
1326904.  Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:16 am Reply with quote

It does, thank you.
Now, if you could imagine that the lights in front of you has just gone red, would you say that the car that is blurred, not the learner in the vw golf, but the one that looks like half a car (in reality it probably is the same car but we cant guarantee that can we), has jumped the lights if he (or she) continues?

 
barbados
1326905.  Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:20 am Reply with quote

Actually, thinking about it, it may be easy to distinguish from the A7 side (which I believe is the left hand turn)
If the light turns red at the point that picture was taken - which cars would you consider can continue?

using the view from this image
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9293182,-3.1615531,3a,60y,19.55h,81t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slxolwRE4qFyT2Jpy8Xmw8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 
dr.bob
1326907.  Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:04 am Reply with quote

Using that image, I would say that, if the lights turned red at that moment, the red and dark gray vauxhalls can continue without being considered as "jumping" the red light as they are already over the white line behind which they should stop. One could probably argue that they should have already stopped when the light turned amber, but that would depend on the exact timing of the lights and how fast the cars were going.

The pick-up truck and the black car behind them should definitely stop. If they continue, they are definitely jumping the red light.

I regularly see cars that, when the light turns red, are as far back from the lights as the pick-up truck which then continue on through the red light.

 
barbados
1326908.  Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:36 am Reply with quote

Of course what you are doing is providing anecdotal evidence on light jumping, but what I am suggesting is that many people would suggest that the two cars that are in the cycle box should stop (indeed you often see that happen) and if they donít they are jumping the lights - which they arenít.
In fact if you spin round to the road you approach from you will see evidence of how not to do it.

Iíd suggest a conversation with Lothian council though, because if you can see the lights on red and green the shields to prevent that arenít doing their job properly.

 
dr.bob
1326910.  Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:49 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
Of course what you are doing is providing anecdotal evidence on light jumping


Indeed I am. Since quite a few people on this thread have already provided anecdotal evidence of cyclists jumping red lights, I figured I'd redress the balance a little. I hadn't really thought about it much before reading this thread, so I was a little surprised at how prevalent it was and how everyone just accepted it. Though, as I explained, it doesn't strike me as overly dangerous.

barbados wrote:
but what I am suggesting is that many people would suggest that the two cars that are in the cycle box should stop (indeed you often see that happen) and if they donít they are jumping the lights - which they arenít.


OK. I don't think that has much effect on the situation I was describing, though.

 
barbados
1326917.  Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:26 am Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:


barbados wrote:
but what I am suggesting is that many people would suggest that the two cars that are in the cycle box should stop (indeed you often see that happen) and if they donít they are jumping the lights - which they arenít.


OK. I don't think that has much effect on the situation I was describing, though.

While you know how to drive, there are those that don't - if you look to the road you approach the junction, you'll see someone who judging by the place they stopped would suggest that the two cars would be jumping the lights, not considering the fact that (s)he has effectively stopped in the middle of the junction.
So while I accept your anecdotal evidence, we are talking of the bigger picture here, and that would be affected by the interpretation.

 
dr.bob
1326950.  Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:26 am Reply with quote

What would be affected by the interpretation?

Clearly my anecdotal evidence isn't, I think we agree on that.

The only other thing I can think of in this thread is when we've discussed how many car drivers run red lights. As I recall, that was based on a survey asking people if they have run a red light. Surely that wouldn't be affected by the interpretation, would it?

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here.

 
barbados
1326966.  Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:12 am Reply with quote

Yeah I think we can agree that your interpretation is unlikely to be swayed by not knowing who is jumping the lights, but the person coming the other way (unless by coincidence it is you - in which case why did you stop past your stop line?) is quite likely to.

On your interpretation though, I know that the pick up will, at 30mph, will travel about the length of the vehicle in about 1/30th of a second.* Can you be sure that he (or anything in that position travelling at 30mph) was not across the stop line when the lights go red?


*as a result of a photography project on motion blur

 
Leith
1326982.  Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:15 pm Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
I know that the pick up will, at 30mph, will travel about the length of the vehicle in about 1/30th of a second.

Not unless the vehicle is 45cm long it won't. Maybe 1/3 of a second.

 
barbados
1326984.  Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:47 pm Reply with quote

yes, my slip.
30mph is 44 feet per second - however, it is still true judging a starting position when a trigger happens 20feet ahead is a big ask

 
dr.bob
1327175.  Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:18 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
Can you be sure that he (or anything in that position travelling at 30mph) was not across the stop line when the lights go red?


Absolutely. I watch the lights turn red, then I turn my head to the left to check for oncoming traffic and see that the vehicle is still behind the stop line at that point. I then watch as the vehicle continues across the stop line, despite the light being red.

The car is definitely behind the stop line when the lights go red.

 
barbados
1327477.  Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:46 am Reply with quote

Moving on from cyclists.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49130670
This sentence is nowhere near long enough.

 
Jenny
1327491.  Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:46 pm Reply with quote

Barr directs federal government to reinstate death penalty, schedule the execution of 5 death row inmates

 

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