| barbados
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| 1315951. Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:08 am |
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| And as a percentage, how many do you reckon think that providing advice on all aspects of growing up (which careers advice is part of at a school age) is not part of their job? |
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| dr.bob
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| 1315955. Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:11 am |
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| GuyBarry wrote: | | But it's not the teacher's job as far as I'm concerned. It's a bit like saying "what's the appropriate response from a teacher to a young student who develops a medical condition?" The only sensible answer is "go and see a doctor", I would submit, not to try to diagnose it themselves. |
So your opinion is that, if a student asks a teacher if they could become an astronaut one day, the teacher's correct response is "Sorry son, discussing that kind of thing is not in my job description, so I'm going to not give you any advice on a point of principal."?
| GuyBarry wrote: | | There are so many other avenues of encouragement and inspiration out there. |
Such as? |
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| GuyBarry
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| 1315963. Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:22 am |
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This is going round in circles now. You asked me that self-same question in post 1315841[*], and I answered it in post 1315848, where I gave you a link to a list of organizations that provide careers guidance to young people. I have nothing to add to what I said in that post.
[*]With the same misspelling of "principle", I might add. |
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| GuyBarry
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| 1315964. Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:31 am |
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| barbados wrote: | | And as a percentage, how many do you reckon think that providing advice on all aspects of growing up (which careers advice is part of at a school age) is not part of their job? |
Suze is in a better position to answer that question than I am. She said that there were teachers who would refuse to give careers advice, and that if they were in her team she wouldn't be allowed to discipline them for it. I've no idea what proportion of the overall workforce would take that attitude though.
She also mentioned that part of her role as a sixth-form registration tutor involved giving careers advice to some extent, so I presume it's specifically written into her contract.
EDIT: This is the guidance that was issued to local authorities when the responsibility for careers guidance was transferred to schools:
| Quote: | | Subject to the passage of the Education Bill through Parliament, schools will, from September 2012, be under a duty to secure access to independent and impartial careers guidance for their pupils. Schools will be free to make arrangements for careers guidance for young people that fit the needs and circumstances of their students, and will be able to engage, as appropriate, in partnership with external, expert providers. |
http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/l/la%20guidance%20april%202011.pdf
Note that it talks about "external, expert providers". There's nothing there to suggest that schoolteachers are responsible for supplying careers guidance themselves. |
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| GuyBarry
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| 1315979. Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:03 pm |
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I've been asked a lot of questions recently, so I'd like to ask one of my own.
In 2017, there were 14 million graduates in the UK - approximately 30% of the voting-age population of 46.8 million. (Source: ONS)
In the current Parliament elected in 2017, 87% of MPs are graduates. (Source: Sutton Trust)
This is a huge imbalance by any standards. What can be done to increase the number of non-graduates in Parliament, to make it more representative of the population as a whole? |
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| barbados
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| 1315983. Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:16 pm |
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| You can start by telling the school age children they can get to the top job regardless of sex, race, or religion. |
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| GuyBarry
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| 1315986. Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:29 pm |
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And how would that help?
John Major became PM after leaving school with three O-levels (plus three more he gained by correspondence course). Why isn't he presented as a role model to schoolchildren? |
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| barbados
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| 1315987. Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:34 pm |
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| GuyBarry wrote: | And how would that help?
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I'd suggest using the opposite of your preferred method. |
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| suze
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| 1315990. Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:02 pm |
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| barbados wrote: | | I know quite a lot of teachers, and I reckon I could count on the fingers of one foot the number that would start an industrial dispute as as a result of being asked to provide any advice to a child. |
If you've not met the kind of teacher who will raise a grievance over just about anything, then you may consider yourself fortunate. Such teachers are found more in secondary schools than in primary schools, and more in the inner cities than the 'burbs, but no kind of school is completely immune to them.
We've got two to three of them at my school. Fortunately none reports to me, and one of them is on a final written warning for unrelated reasons, but no Head can afford to assume that they are completely absent from her school.
| GuyBarry wrote: | | She also mentioned that part of her role as a sixth-form registration tutor involved giving careers advice to some extent, so I presume it's specifically written into her contract. |
And here is the problem: it isn't. At least, it's not in mine; I do not have sight of the contracts issued to new teachers at my school, and still less of the contracts used at other schools. It was easy in the days when every school used standard county contracts, but fewer by the term still do.
The precise duties of a sixth form registration tutor are nowhere set out in as much detail as they perhaps should be, but I take it that if a girl in my group needs to know something that she can't find out for herself, then it's my job either to tell her or to tell her who to ask. Even within my own school though, I'd be lying if I said that every tutor takes that responsibility as seriously as I do.
| Guy wrote: | | Note that it talks about "external, expert providers". There's nothing there to suggest that schoolteachers are responsible for supplying careers guidance themselves. |
That's a "may", though, not a "must". In practice, almost all schools do use external, expert providers to the extent that they can afford to. I suspect that the likes of Eton think they know better, and don't, but the bigger issue is the schools that can't afford to.
| GuyBarry wrote: | And how would that help?
John Major became PM after leaving school with three O-levels (plus three more he gained by correspondence course). Why isn't he presented as a role model to schoolchildren? |
Because people of our generation struggle to remember who he was, or anything that he achieved.
One might almost as well put forward Jeremy Corbyn. He does have A levels, but only two Es, but I doubt that all many will ever see him as a hugely influential role model. |
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