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Shamima Begum case

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dr.bob
1314065.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:14 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
If she did do something that is illegal in Syria, shouldn’t she (or he come to mention it) be dealt with by the Syrian authorities before bein repatriated to face the consequences of her misdemeanours in the UK?


If Syria was a stable, functioning state, then you may have a point. As suze points out, this is far from the case at the moment. Ms Begum is currently being held by Kurdish forces in northeastern Syria and I think they've got bigger problems to sort out right now before they try and form a coherent justice system.

PDR wrote:
on the subject of foreign offenders being deported at the end of their sentences. I was supporting it but the majority saw it as "racist".


I guess the argument against deporting foreign criminals is that everyone should be equal before the law. If two people commit the same crime, then they should receive the same sentence. It shouldn't matter if they're rich or poor, black or white, or British or foreign.

If a British person commits a crime and receives a jail sentence, while a foreign person commits the same crime but receives both a jail sentence and a one-way ticket out of the country, then they're not being treated equally by the law.

 
crissdee
1314066.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:17 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
even that is not an entity with which Western governments are especially comfortable with dealing.


AHEM!!!

 
barbados
1314071.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:18 am Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:


PDR wrote:
on the subject of foreign offenders being deported at the end of their sentences. I was supporting it but the majority saw it as "racist".


I guess the argument against deporting foreign criminals is that everyone should be equal before the law. If two people commit the same crime, then they should receive the same sentence. It shouldn't matter if they're rich or poor, black or white, or British or foreign.

If a British person commits a crime and receives a jail sentence, while a foreign person commits the same crime but receives both a jail sentence and a one-way ticket out of the country, then they're not being treated equally by the law.

The punishment is the same, the immigrant has terms and conditions attached to his (or her) leave to remain, and these allow for deportation. The original crime is punished by a custodial sentence, that leads to another breach which is punishable by deportation

 
GuyBarry
1314076.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:39 am Reply with quote

@crissdee: I've commented in post 1314075 since it's an issue of grammar rather than substance.

 
crissdee
1314096.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:06 pm Reply with quote

Breaking news from BBC local just now. The Home Office plan to strip her of her citizenship (Ms Begum not suze!!!). This suggests either they know something we haven't been told, or they intend to take a Very Big Step.

 
cnb
1314100.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:06 pm Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:
Breaking news from BBC local just now. The Home Office plan to strip her of her citizenship (Ms Begum not suze!!!). This suggests either they know something we haven't been told, or they intend to take a Very Big Step.


Presumably they have confirmed that her mother is a Bangladeshi citizen, and that as a result she is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship herself, and so would not be made stateless.

 
'yorz
1314101.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:12 pm Reply with quote

Would she be considered to be Dutch since her hubbie (who's doing time somewhere) is Dutch?

 
PDR
1314105.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:58 pm Reply with quote

Strawberry wrote:
PDR: Possibly this thread. I'll link to the first post.

Post 327649.


The Post-Finder General does it again! I don't know how you do it, but thanks Strawberry

Yes, that was the thread I was thinking of, and Bob is right that my memory of it was just plain wrong - it was a different issue and so not at odds with the views in this thread.

PDR

 
PDR
1314106.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:02 pm Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
Would she be considered to be Dutch since her hubbie (who's doing time somewhere) is Dutch?


There are countries where marriage to a national does not automatically give the right to that nationality (america is one, as indeed is the UK IIRC) but I don't know what Holland's laws are on this.

PDR

 
cnb
1314108.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:22 pm Reply with quote

PDR wrote:
'yorz wrote:
Would she be considered to be Dutch since her hubbie (who's doing time somewhere) is Dutch?


There are countries where marriage to a national does not automatically give the right to that nationality (america is one, as indeed is the UK IIRC) but I don't know what Holland's laws are on this.

PDR


I'm not aware of any country that grants citizenship automatically (rather than on application) on marriage to one of its citizens. She is theoretically eligible for Dutch citizenship if she has lived with her Dutch husband for three years, but I expect there's a national security get-out in the Dutch law that would allow them to reject her application.

 
Awitt
1314111.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:15 pm Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:
Breaking news from BBC local just now. The Home Office plan to strip her of her citizenship (Ms Begum not suze!!!). This suggests either they know something we haven't been told, or they intend to take a Very Big Step.


ABC report that I've just seen this morning (my time)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-20/islamic-state-uk-teen-shamima-begum-stripped-of-citizenship/10827846?WT.tsrc=Facebook_Organic&fbclid=IwAR0KBfR0qd2L3jzsPydffgzYrsfRMrSyrmy0rLM8q1A02EWF5S2dL3me28k&sf208029172=1&smid=Page%3A+ABC+Australia-Facebook_Organic

 
crissdee
1314118.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:13 pm Reply with quote

Looks from the update just now that they are basing it on her mother's Bangladeshi links. Some ex-copper was on, giving his opinion that the legality of the move was questionable. I rather think that Her Majesty's Home Office didn't just come up with this idea during their tea break and decided to run with it to see what happened. They will have looked at the legal issues before taking action.

Won't they?

 
PDR
1314120.  Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:41 pm Reply with quote

Because the Home Office has such a distinguished track record of never having done anything which was subsequently found to be illegal...

[/sarcasm]

PDR

 
crissdee
1314140.  Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:36 am Reply with quote

Fair point.......

 
Alexander Howard
1314144.  Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:25 am Reply with quote

You would generally assume that citizenship could only be removed from someone who has acquired British citizenship during their lifetime - the state has given those rights on terms of good behaviour, you broke the terms and so the state can take it away - or from someone who has effectively ceased to be British after acquiring another citizenship. The idea that someone born a British citizen can be stripped of citizenship involuntarily should be worrying. Politics not principle applies here though.

I feel for her parents - they must be frantic.

 

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