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Scenes we can expect post-Brexit

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tetsabb
1299087.  Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:29 am Reply with quote

Op Stack has not been implemented for a while, as it has been taken over by Dover TAP -- Traffic Access Protocol. Heavies on the A20 approaching Dover are moved into the left lane and held on the outskirts of tge town, from where they are released in batches to go directly to the Port. This seems to have worked fairly well to reduce congestion in the town when there has been bad weather in the Channel or strikes or other hold ups.
But no-one seems any the wiser as to what happens on Mar 30th 2019. I thought this was supposed to have been sorted out by Davis an Barnier over the last 2 years.

 
GuyBarry
1299095.  Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:41 am Reply with quote

tetsabb wrote:

But no-one seems any the wiser as to what happens on Mar 30th 2019. I thought this was supposed to have been sorted out by Davis an Barnier over the last 2 years.


Is that another example of your "light-hearted satire"?

 
AlmondFacialBar
1299105.  Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:11 am Reply with quote

Meanwhile I'm watching the new customs facilities in Dublin Port being built from my desk and that's sadly neither fiction nor satire.

 
tetsabb
1299148.  Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:27 pm Reply with quote

GuyBarry wrote:
tetsabb wrote:

But no-one seems any the wiser as to what happens on Mar 30th 2019. I thought this was supposed to have been sorted out by Davis an Barnier over the last 2 years.


Is that another example of your "light-hearted satire"?


No, more a case of me throwing up my hands in despair at this entire monumental clusterfuck.

My spell check on this phone does not recognize 'clusterfuck'

 
barbados
1299178.  Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:25 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
It turns out that the Special Development Order has been extended twice, most recently by the Town and Country Planning (Operation Stack) Special Development (Amendment) Order 2017. It's now valid until 31 Dec 2019.

But as you say, all it actually does is grant planning permission for the former Manston Airport to be used as a car park. Thanet District Council doesn't especially like it, and the permission was granted in this unorthodox way precisely because of the possibility that Thanet DC - at one time controlled by UKIP, as you will be aware - would have declined to grant planning permission in the conventional way. The Manston Airport site has not, in fact, at any time been used in the way authorised.

So is Tom talking out of his Tugendhat? Quite possibly, but if he wants to come here and tell us precisely what he considers to need planning permission that it doesn't have, he is most welcome.

Correct, Google returns the original SI, you have to dig a little deeper to get the amendments (although I think there is a 2018 - not that it matters we are in accord)
As for Mr Tugendhat, he asked a question in the house on October 11th about this matter, and his concern appears to relate to a letter to Chris Grayling in April, wher he asked if there was any intention to carry out the work. I'd be inclined to suggest a couple of points.
1) There was no intention to carry out the work when asked
2) Mr Tugendhat appears to have dropped the ball somewhat, if I were he once we were veering towards a no deal scenario, I would have been asking more frequently than once every 7 months. The landscape has changed back and forth 3 times over the last week that we know of.

 
tetsabb
1299378.  Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:45 am Reply with quote

From The Times April 2019

The first of a cavalcade of British vehicles arrived in Calais this morning, as previous inhabitants of France began their sorry exodus from the places they had once called home.
"Yes, I campaigned for Brexit," said one former Chancellor, holding back the tears, "But who'd have thought it would come to this?"
"Anyone would think we were unwelcome immigrants or something," wailed Fiona Corfe-Pottinger, who had moved to the area after reading Peter Mayle's A year in Provence.
Many more are expected to follow in the coming days.
Naturally, when French media tried to interview the returnees, there was little response, as so few had ever bothered to learn the language

 
cornixt
1299388.  Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:04 am Reply with quote

Coming out of EU and I'm not doing that fine, gotta gotta be down because I want it all,
It started off with UKIP, how did it end up like shit? It was only UKIP, it was only UKIP...

 
Zziggy
1300449.  Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:13 pm Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
I've never understood the scenarios the doom-merchants outline. Yes, they need to be listened to, and high-up policy makers will usually forget to deal with practical detail. But -

If imports of anything stop because of new customs duties or checks, that's a totally self-inflicted wound: it just needs HMG not to impose duties, or to say "if it's got an E-mark we'll trust it today as we did yesterday". Problem solved.

Problem solved. Zero protections or guarantees that any imports - toys our children play with or food we eat - is safe. An open invitation for counterfeiters. No documentation. No checks. No oversight.

To say nothing of exports. Who would take anything from a country that didn't have any standards to speak of?

But yeah other than that - problem solved!

If you want a glimpse at the mess that awaits us for food alone, this article is a good start.

 
Jenny
1300626.  Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:59 pm Reply with quote

It's not often that I'm glad to be living in the USA but this is one of those times.

 
'yorz
1300632.  Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:31 pm Reply with quote

Well, I gather it's a bit of being stuck between a rock and a hard place for you emotion-wise, Jenny....

 
Prof Wind Up Merchant
1306601.  Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:52 pm Reply with quote

The No deal scenario of mass queues on the M20 Motorway a bit of scaremongering?

 
bobwilson
1306627.  Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:39 pm Reply with quote

Zziggy wrote:
Alexander Howard wrote:
I've never understood the scenarios the doom-merchants outline. Yes, they need to be listened to, and high-up policy makers will usually forget to deal with practical detail. But -

If imports of anything stop because of new customs duties or checks, that's a totally self-inflicted wound: it just needs HMG not to impose duties, or to say "if it's got an E-mark we'll trust it today as we did yesterday". Problem solved.

Problem solved. Zero protections or guarantees that any imports - toys our children play with or food we eat - is safe. An open invitation for counterfeiters. No documentation. No checks. No oversight.

To say nothing of exports. Who would take anything from a country that didn't have any standards to speak of?

But yeah other than that - problem solved!

If you want a glimpse at the mess that awaits us for food alone, this article is a good start.


Well, that's certainly one point of view. But as Alexander said "if it's got an E-mark we'll trust it today as we did yesterday".

To take the first "for instance" given in that article. The question is whether in reality, in the event of a "no deal", the EU and UK would instantly cease to allow import/export of foods. Technically, I suppose, they could - but the reality is more likely to be a simultaneous mutual recognition of the integrity of the quality control systems in place, and business pretty much as usual (albeit with a few more forms to complete).

This is all very reminiscent of the Y2K meltdown, the impending AIDS epidemic, and probably the Cuban missile crisis. There might well be negative impacts - but these ridiculous willy-waving ChikenLittle antics add nothing to the debate.

 
suze
1306628.  Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:57 pm Reply with quote

bobwilson wrote:
The reality is more likely to be a simultaneous mutual recognition of the integrity of the quality control systems in place, and business pretty much as usual (albeit with a few more forms to complete).


Could that happen without new legislation? This is a real question, because I don't know the answer; I'm not entirely clear on what can and can't be Henry VIII-ed and for how long.

Because if legislation is needed, passing it will be decidedly tricky. The Labour Party will oppose because it is the Opposition and opposing is its job, and the Rees-Mogg contingent will oppose because that would make things awkward for Mrs May.

We have to bear in mind that at least part of Mr Corbyn actually wants things to go horribly wrong once we leave, because that will bring down the government. Some part of the Rees-Mogg contingent actually wants things to go horribly wrong once we leave, because that will bring down the Prime Minister.

You may say - and Guy in particular has said on this very thread - that the politicians should forget point scoring and power games and think of the national interest. But we see little evidence of any political grouping being willing actually to do this, and neither of the two major parties is in a position to cast the first stone.

 
bobwilson
1306630.  Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:11 pm Reply with quote

One word - brinksmanship

 
barbados
1306632.  Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:26 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
bobwilson wrote:
The reality is more likely to be a simultaneous mutual recognition of the integrity of the quality control systems in place, and business pretty much as usual (albeit with a few more forms to complete).


Could that happen without new legislation? This is a real question, because I don't know the answer; I'm not entirely clear on what can and can't be Henry VIII-ed and for how long.


Is the answer not simple common sense?
Lets say that there is no deal and we crash out in the most spectacular fashion on March 29th.
What are you going to do with you e-marked fridge? You're going to keep it until it breaks, then buy a replacement. It isn't going to become anymore unsafe over night is it?

 

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