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Scenes we can expect post-Brexit

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1306694.  Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:52 pm Reply with quote

Of course it isn't.

But if both Britain and Europe choose to be bloody awkward just because they can, it might become quite difficult to find that replacement.

Suppose that Jacob Rees-Mogg is Prime Minister by then. I know this seems improbable, but stranger things have happened. He might decide to pander to his far right support base by ruling that EU certifications are no longer valid in Britain, and that fridge isn't coming into the country until it has a newfangled Union Jack certification.

Our fridge was made in Italy (I just looked). The manufacturer in Italy might decide that it's not worth its while to adapt one of its production lines to make Union Jack-compliant fridges, and so not do it.

Worse yet, Prime Minister Rees-Mogg has decided that the ozone layer is an EU myth, and so CFCs are back in, by order. Rather than the two liters of isobutane that the EU mandates (I've just made that figure up, but isobutane is the stuff that is now used), fridges for British use must contain three pints of CFCs instead. Our production line in Italy now can't make your new fridge even if it does consider it worthwhile, because the workers in Italy will be carted off to jail if they put CFCs in any fridge they make.

Yes, that is an intentionally ridiculous example, and I don't seriously expect things ever to get quite that bad. But if British politicians continue to be as intransigent as they are at present, it's where we could end up.

1306710.  Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:53 pm Reply with quote

In The US, states get to make a lot of their own laws. California tends to be the most restrictive, so if you want to sell certain products in that state then you have to follow the quality that their laws require. Most companies do this (there are many exceptions), and the rest of the states get to enjoy the "benefits" of more efficient cars and cancer warnings on sugar substitutes, because it costs too much to ignore that market or cater to it differently. But Californians do have to put up with "we don't ship to your state" when ordering lots of things that are not allowed to be sold in Ca.

California's population in the US is about the same proportion as the UK in the EU (12%) so it is a pretty good example even if not exactly the same situation with all the borders and such.

1306722.  Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:57 pm Reply with quote

cornixt wrote:
But Californians do have to put up with "we don't ship to your state" when ordering lots of things that are not allowed to be sold in Ca.

I have noted that some of the "toys" I browse for cannot be shipped the far side of the San Andreas........

1306724.  Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:04 pm Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:
cornixt wrote:
But Californians do have to put up with "we don't ship to your state" when ordering lots of things that are not allowed to be sold in Ca.

I have noted that some of the "toys" I browse for cannot be shipped the far side of the San Andreas........

Normally, the concern is that goods may be hazardous if the quality is not up to standard. Somehow I suspect the opposite may pertain here...

1306748.  Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:44 am Reply with quote

Some of my "toys" can be hazardous in the wrong direction if badly made.............

1306812.  Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:52 pm Reply with quote

It has been announced today that once we have left the EU, British citizens wishing to visit the EU (excluding Ireland, probably) will need to get advance permission.

We won't actually need visas, but we will need something called an ETIAS. That is comparable to the ESTA which one must have in order to visit the United States. It will be acquired by means of an online form and will cost 7.

The suggestion that such a thing might happen was raised a few times during the referendum campaign, and the Leave side said words to the effect of "Pish and tush, fake news, won't happen". I know this is hard to believe, but we are now forced to conclude that the Leave side said something that wasn't correct.

When Amber Rudd was Home Secretary, she did concede that it might happen - and also conceded that it might lose an election if it did. It was perhaps with that in mind that Mrs May is reported to have argued for British people to be exempt from needing an ETIAS, but she has not gotten her way on this.

7 is not a huge amount of money, and if any member of this forum in good standing has bought and paid for a trip to Europe but really can't afford the extra 7 then I'll happily give it to them.

But the advice is that one should apply for one's ETIAS four weeks before travel. Most applications will be approved in seconds while you're sat at the computer, but some (if you have a criminal record, probably, but understandably they're not saying in detail) will take up to four weeks. That rules out a spontaneous decision to wander over to France for the afternoon, which I absolutely have done before now.

And what of people who do not have a credit card, do not have access to the Internet, et cetera?

1306835.  Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:51 pm Reply with quote

I imagine they'll be able to apply when they go down to the travel agent to book their tickets, or something like that.

I'll probably need to be permanently signed up, as I need to be able to travel at minimal notice for work. An ETIAS approval is valid for three years, I think, though, so it's a relatively minor annoyance.

1306850.  Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:43 pm Reply with quote

Does this ETIAS thing apply to US citizens who want to visit Europe? Because we've never heard of them before, and nor do we need visas or anything else to travel to the UK (other than a passport, obv.)

1306852.  Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:51 pm Reply with quote

ETIAS is not expected to be in operation until 2021, and the USA is one of the 61 countries (those which don't require a visa for entry to the Schengen zone) that will be affected.


1306853.  Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:53 pm Reply with quote

Thanks ali - good to know.

1306854.  Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:58 pm Reply with quote

They are a new thing, and don't exist yet. The plan is that they will be introduced in 2021. Once they do exist, all non-visa nationals (which includes Americans) will require one. Visa nationals will still require visas as they do now.

One thing that isn't actually completely put to bed yet is whether Britain is to require visas of EU people (other than Irish people) wishing to visit the UK for tourist purposes. The EU is assuming that it won't and is probably right in that assumption, but there are a few on the far right who want that to happen. If it should happen, then the EU has a dropped a not-all-that-subtle hint that it will in turn reconsider its position and require visas of British people wishing to visit the EU.

1306862.  Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:51 pm Reply with quote

I am hardly surprised at the 27 looking like they will impose some kind of restriction on Brits visiting. I don't suppose I should be surprised at the right-wing press getting all snitty about it either.
Is this an opportunity to say -- "Did this possibility not cross your mind?"

1306892.  Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:26 am Reply with quote

You should be surprised, they have suggested that the intention is not to do that

1306904.  Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:57 am Reply with quote

They reserve the right to do so, though, and that is a right which they don't have at the moment.

7 may not be a massive imposition on most people, but it's 7 that we wouldn't have had to pay if we hadn't chosen to leave. When the possibility was raised during the referendum campaign, the Leave campaign said it was scaremongering and wouldn't happen. Wrong!

As I said above, I've been to France for the afternoon just because I felt like it before now, and that will no longer be possible. Maybe not the end of the world, but it does not make my life better - and we were promised that everything would be so much better in so many ways. Wrong!

1306909.  Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:07 am Reply with quote

Any Brexiteer will accuse you of nitpicking. :-)


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