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Euouae

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samivel
79433.  Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:50 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
The discussion starting at post 9787

appears to have been started by a person who can't spell his own name



To be fair, that may be because he/she wanted to get the name of the show into their name.

 
suze
79435.  Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:07 am Reply with quote

OK, samivel, good point - I hadn't thought of that! He's still wrong about Cherokee...

Another thing I would like to know if anyone can advise - how does one pronounce euouae? (Yoo-oh-ee seems reasonable, but I'm guessing.)

 
samivel
79437.  Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:23 am Reply with quote

Well, I bow to your greater knowledge in the case of Cherokee.
(And much else besides, I should think)



Quote:
I'd probably accept psst as a four letter word without a vowel, and I'd be surprised if there is a longer one.



'Brrrr' is in the OED as an interjection indicative of shivering and/or cold.

 
suze
79445.  Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:14 am Reply with quote

samivel wrote:
(And much else besides, I should think)


I doubt it. Indigenous languages of North America, probably. But not much else, I wouldn't have thought!

samivel wrote:
"Brrrr" is in the OED as an interjection indicative of shivering and/or cold.


Damn so it is! I'm not sure I would have spelled it with the quadruple "r", but they have the citations so there we are.

Well done that man!

 
auguste
79447.  Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:19 am Reply with quote

I seem to have caused this irritable vowel syndrome by erroneously identifying euouae as the longest word consisiting solely of vowels. I'm not the only one afflicted with this misapprehension: many other sources, including the Guinness Book of Records, make the same claim; Suze's challenge is quite right, though- the word 'euouae' was formed by taking the final six vowels from the doxology 'Gloria Patri', and isn't really a word proper anyway. Suze lists some other interesting words. To her examples of vowel-heavy words I can add syzygy ("the combining of two feet into a single metrical unit in classical prosody", and also something to do with celestial orbits), but there, as is so often the case, 'y' is really being used as a vowel. I'm afraid that I can't bring myself to accept onomatopoeic approximations such as 'Psst!' or 'Ssshhh!' as words, either.

 
Gray
79693.  Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:22 am Reply with quote

I rather think that 'Mmmmmmmm...' should be in there too because it's in very common usage (down our way). It's also one of the only words with a variable number of identical letters in the middle of it.

The definition would be "Interjectorial prefix to sotto-voce naming of imagined object of usu. gastronomical passion and veneration." Usage esp. Homer Simpson. The number of 'm's in the middle is proportional to the gustatorial reverence accorded to the object in question.

 
mckeonj
79718.  Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:36 pm Reply with quote

If sol-fa is a genuine word, then euouae must be admitted a word by the same token; both are musical terms derived from a sequence of Latin syllables; sol-fa from ut, re, mi, fa, sol, la, te, do; the words to a well known hymn called (I think) Ut quaent laetis.

 
Gaazy
80005.  Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:02 am Reply with quote

mckeonj wrote:
If sol-fa is a genuine word, then euouae must be admitted a word by the same token; both are musical terms derived from a sequence of Latin syllables; sol-fa from ut, re, mi, fa, sol, la, te, do; the words to a well known hymn called (I think) Ut quaent laetis.

Ut queant laxis, to be precise.

Wiki explains it concisely:

Quote:
Ut queant laxis or Hymnus in Ioannem is a plainchant hymn to John the Baptist written by Paulus Diaconus, the 8th century Lombard historian.

It is notable in that each of the first six musical phrases of the first stanza of the hymn begins on a successively higher note of the hexachord. The first syllable of each hemistich (half line of verse) has given its name to a successive note, since these syllables coincide with the ascending note pattern. The last line, Sancte Ioannes, breaks the ascending pattern (for musical rather than pedagogic reasons) and begins with the note previously sung to "sol".

Ut queant laxis resonare fibris
Mira gestorum famuli tuorum,
Solve polluti labii reatum,
Sancte Ioannes.


Ut is now mostly replaced by Do.

The seventh note was not part of the medieval hexachord and does not occur in this melody, and it was originally called "si" from Sancte Ioannes, but was later renamed "ti" later to allow each name to start with a different letter.

 
samivel
80007.  Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:15 am Reply with quote

Gaazy wrote:
Quote:
Ut is now mostly replaced by Do.




Anyone know why this should be?

 
Gaazy
80010.  Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:46 am Reply with quote

Most probably so that it would be, like the other note-names, a consonant followed by a vowel.

The 'o' sound is also more open than the 'u' and therefore more singable.

It is said, but I have no citation for this, that the choice of 'do' was influenced by the word Dominus (Lord).

 
Gaazy
80011.  Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:00 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
There are "proper English words" with six consecutive consonants such as catchphrase and sightscreen.

I find it QI that many speakers of English insert an extra consonant when certain vowels come together (law rand order etc.), but don't have a problem with long agglomerations of consonants.

'Catchphrase' may have six consecutive consonants, but only three consecutive consonantal sounds (tch, ph and r); a pair of words such as 'clasped frame' has five (s, p, d, f and r), and yet they don't present a problem in normal speech for native speakers.

I have a feeling, though, that first-language Italian speakers would stick a couple of schwas in there.

 
samivel
80030.  Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:49 am Reply with quote

Gaazy wrote:
Most probably so that it would be, like the other note-names, a consonant followed by a vowel.

The 'o' sound is also more open than the 'u' and therefore more singable.

It is said, but I have no citation for this, that the choice of 'do' was influenced by the word Dominus (Lord).



Thank you.

 
Apollyoneum
452461.  Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:08 am Reply with quote

I still have no idea why or who changed the "ut re" beginning to "do re" (I initially investigated "utre" as a latin swearword!)

However during my research I came across work by Stewart Lyons who claims that far from having an origin in early Christian music the do-re-mi tune has it's origin in Horace's odes, which he discovered were originally set to music.

According to Mr Lyons the origin of the singing instruction method was covered up to prevent the monk from being declared a heretic. It obviously worked because he was transferred to the Vatican to teach there!

Either way I am going to celebrate Horace as the true originator of this song.
As horace would instruct: "Nunc est bibendum, nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus!"

 
Bondee
452465.  Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:37 am Reply with quote

Did anyone else think that this was going to be a thread about Old MacDonald?

 
Jenny
452501.  Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:06 pm Reply with quote

Nah - everybody here speaks fluent Greek and Latin except you, Bondee*.


* This may possibly not be true.

 

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