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Life Imprisonment...or not?

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tetsabb
1384623.  Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:36 am Reply with quote

Leith wrote:

My family tree research turned up a possible cousin who was convicted of "furious driving" in Birmingham in 1882. He was fined 5s. + costs for doing twelve miles an hour in Bull Street.



What a tearaway!
Can one go that fast these days with all the congestion?
Maybe not

 
crissdee
1384641.  Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:01 am Reply with quote

Leith wrote:
...a family of the same name were making early cars in C19th Birmingham.............


That piques the interest of my inner petrolhead, what was the name? PM me if you don't want to reveal family names in open forum.

 
Alexander Howard
1384645.  Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:41 am Reply with quote

The crime of 'furious driving' is still on the books. Every so often someone suggests it is redundant because it is covered by the Road Traffic Acts, but those offences are designed for motor vehicles. There have been recent convictions of cyclists for 'furious driving'.

 
tetsabb
1384662.  Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:28 am Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
convictions of cyclists for 'furious driving'.


.. and, PDR in...
five

four

three....

 
PDR
1384666.  Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:43 am Reply with quote

He's copying my stamps. But then imitation was always the sincerest form of philately...

:0)

PDR

 
suze
1384670.  Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:50 am Reply with quote

It turns out that "driving furiously" and "wanton or furious driving" are different offences, both still on the books.

Under the Town Police Clauses Act 1847, 28, an offence is committed by "Every person who rides or drives furiously any horse or carriage, or drives furiously any cattle". The word "carriage" could perhaps be construed to include a motor vehicle, and I'll explain a bit further down why you might ever want to.

Under the Offences against the Person Act 1861, 35, an offence is committed by "Whosoever, having the charge of any carriage or vehicle, shall by wanton or furious driving or racing, or other wilful misconduct, or by wilful neglect, do or cause to be done any bodily harm to any person whatsoever".

Obiter dicta from an 1867 case brought under the 1847 Act has it that the Act is also taken to cover "equestrians, mahouts, cameleers and outward bound ladies from Riga". Precisely what was meant by the last is not entirely clear. Were they perhaps "well known in Drury Lane", as The Times used to say?


This is all very well, but why would you ever want to use these Victorian Acts against the driver of a motor vehicle when you have the Road Traffic Acts available?

Another forum provides an explanation. A poster who represented himself as a CPS prosecutor states that he once used the 1861 Act to prosecute a person who was riding a motorbike across a school field. He hit a schoolgirl and broke her leg, and because this occurred off road the Road Traffic Acts were inapplicable. The motorcyclist pled guilty to wanton or furious driving and was sent to prison. Assuning that he held one, he will have had a DD90 endorsement recorded on his driving licence.

 
Alexander Howard
1384673.  Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:20 pm Reply with quote

Well -

There was a young lady from Riga,
Who rode with a smile on a tiger.
They returned from the ride.
With the lady inside.
And the smile on the face of the tiger.

 
ali
1384689.  Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:14 pm Reply with quote

I think you have it. Inward bound, I doubt that any court would hold her liable.

 
Leith
1384690.  Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:32 pm Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:
Leith wrote:
...a family of the same name were making early cars in C19th Birmingham.............


That piques the interest of my inner petrolhead, what was the name? PM me if you don't want to reveal family names in open forum.

This lot are the auto-makers, Chris:
Wiki: Allday & Onions

The Alldays and the Onions had rival businesses making bellows and forges, the Alldays since 1720 and the Onions since 1650 or so. They merged in the 1880s, and branched out into making bicycles, then cars and motorcycles. Their first cars were produced in 1898, so a little late for our furious driver. They also won the first major government contract to supply military bicycles for use in the Boer war - I imagine a few of those might have been driven furiously in their time:
https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/1898-alldays-matchless-military-roadster/

The bellows making side of the business was one of the longest running family-owned businesses in Britain, I think. It was finally bought out in 2005, but is still running as an industrial ventilation business under its new ownership, I believe.

 
crissdee
1384703.  Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:53 am Reply with quote

I had heard of them in my indiscriminate reading around the subject. I shall consider them in a new light when next I encounter the name!

 
cornixt
1384719.  Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:21 am Reply with quote

Great band name, Allday & the Onions.

 
suze
1384725.  Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:54 am Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
Well -

There was a young lady from Riga,
Who rode with a smile on a tiger.
They returned from the ride.
With the lady inside.
And the smile on the face of the tiger.


Ooh now then, you just might be responsible for a minor rewriting of literary history here!

That particular limerick is not the work of Edward Lear; if it were, the last word would be Riga. It is conventionally attributed to the Sherlockian scholar W S Baring-Gould, who acknowledged that some of the limericks he included in his anthology The Lure of the Limerick (1967) were his own youthful work.

But Baring-Gould was not born until 1913, so he could hardly have written a limerick which was cited in court in 1867. Now, the University of Toronto curates a large online anthology of poetry which includes this limerick, and credits it to Baring-Gould with the footnote "Sometimes attributed to Cosmo Monkhouse, on slim grounds".

William Cosmo Monkhouse (1840-1901) made his living by writing about art. He was an expert on Chinese ceramics, and so was probably acquainted with Baron Gruner. He also published some "serious" poetry, but no humorous verse is known.

However, he has the major advantage over Baring-Gould of having been alive at the right time to have written about the young lady from Riga. I don't know what the "slim grounds" are, but maybe they just got a bit fatter!

 
tetsabb
1384733.  Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:02 pm Reply with quote

And, of course, Riga is pronounced Reega....

 
Numerophile
1384745.  Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:21 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
That particular limerick is not the work of Edward Lear; if it were, the last word would be Riga.

Not necessarily; there are a number of examples in A Book of Nonsense where Lear rhymes the last line by repeating the last word of the second line rather than the first - which would fit this case - and even a few where he rhymes without any repeats. For instance, respectively, There was an Old Man in a tree and There was a Young Lady whose eyes. But I agree that William Cosmo Monkhouse looks more likely, and presumably it had been recently published at the time of the court case.

To be honest, I wasn't familiar with the Riga version of this limerick; I only knew the Niger version. But that must be a later amendment, since Niger doesn't appear to have come into use as a place name until the end of the 19th century, and (despite various web attributions) is unlikely to be due to WCM who died in 1901.

 
suze
1384751.  Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:50 pm Reply with quote

tetsabb wrote:
And, of course, Riga is pronounced Reega....


Well yes it is of course. But for one thing a bit of licence is allowed in humorous verse, and for another thing English folk had even less idea about foreign pronunciation in 1867 than they do in 2021.

This fact scares me, given that I have spent much of this evening having to listen to English folk in 2021 attempting Danish surnames.

 

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