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Life Imprisonment...or not?

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barbados
1295796.  Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:31 pm Reply with quote

Does that not ignore the rate of homicide in, lets say, leafy Maine is a lot lower than Chicago for instance?

 
Alexander Howard
1295808.  Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:01 pm Reply with quote

When the death penalty is applied, the reoffending rate is reduced; I'll say that for it.

Before Brougham's reforms, which eliminated the death penalty for most offences, the murder rate was higher because a thief who was facing the noose had a motive to kill any witnesses: he would not be facing any worse a penalty for the murder than for the theft.

Harsh sentences are meant to deter, but statistocs cannot tell us reliably, only interviews with criminals might. Statistics might show that where punishment is harsher, the crime rate is higher: this would not be because the sentencing worsens the offending but because where there is high crime, the legislature reacts by increasing sentences. that does not mean that heavy sentences do not deter, just that they cannot be the whole solution.

The best ways to keep a man from committing crimes are to give him a job to occupy him, and that he is afraid of losing, give him responsibilities, and give him a wife. That's not something the government can much about though.

 
Jenny
1295861.  Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:49 pm Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
Does that not ignore the rate of homicide in, lets say, leafy Maine is a lot lower than Chicago for instance?


The homicide rate in the USA generally is higher than in the UK - 5.35 per 100,000 as compared to 1.2 per 100,000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Maine's figures are 2 per 100,000, so higher than the UK generally. Illinois (can't separate Chicago out) is 10, so yes. But the average has to encompass everybody.

 
crissdee
1295867.  Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:41 pm Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
The best ways to keep a man from committing crimes are to give him a job to occupy him, and that he is afraid of losing, give him responsibilities,


Up till this point I was nodding sagely.

Alexander Howard wrote:
give him a wife.


And that''s where the sage nodding gave way to slack-jawed WTF??????

Apart from the many and varied reasons why a man might not actually want a wife, how would the presence or absence of any kind of life partner make any useful difference?

 
'yorz
1295869.  Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:56 pm Reply with quote

Apart from that, the 'give him a wife' raises my hackles big time. For fuck sake. If that was a joke, it was a pretty poor one.

 
AlmondFacialBar
1295872.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:29 am Reply with quote

The presence or absence of a loved companion might well make a difference (I don't have actual stats for that, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised), because managing personal relationships is just as much part of adulthood as holding down a job and contributing to your community in other ways. Does that companion have to be if a particular gender, though? No! Does the person's relationship with that companion have to answer to any particular definition of love? Also no! Finally - all those adult responsibilities only apply to men? From which 18th century tome exactly did you extract that shit, Alexander?

:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
barbados
1295876.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:59 am Reply with quote

You seemed to grasp what was suggested by the give him a wife comment, but then you seemed to lose a bit of focus.
In this particular case I would suggest that it is the man we are talking about.

 
crissdee
1295881.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:49 am Reply with quote

And of course, it is a well-known fact that there are very few married criminals...........

 
AlmondFacialBar
1295882.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:56 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
You seemed to grasp what was suggested by the give him a wife comment, but then you seemed to lose a bit of focus.
In this particular case I would suggest that it is the man we are talking about.




:-)

AlmondFacialBar

 
'yorz
1295884.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:15 am Reply with quote

AFB, your smiley signature can be mighty confusing and counter-productive.

 
barbados
1295885.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:22 am Reply with quote

AlmondFacialBar wrote:
barbados wrote:
You seemed to grasp what was suggested by the give him a wife comment, but then you seemed to lose a bit of focus.
In this particular case I would suggest that it is the man we are talking about.




:-)

AlmondFacialBar


Were you suggesting that the level of criminals we are discussing here are just as likely to be female?

 
Jenny
1295972.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:00 pm Reply with quote

I think you maybe need to define exactly what crimes the criminals you have in mind have committed, barb, before we can answer that.

 
barbados
1295975.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:08 pm Reply with quote

I thought the discussion was about serious criminals - the kind that attract long sentences (that end up as short sentences in prisons).

 
suze
1295979.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:03 pm Reply with quote

The United Nations collated global statistics on homicides in 2014, and found that 96% of persons convicted of murder are male, while 79% of victims of murder are male.

We cannot necessarily say from this that 96% of people who commit murder are male since not every murder is solved, and in fact I wouldn't be especially surprised if a woman is more likely than a man to get away with a murder. All the same, it is clearly the case that an overwhelming majority of murders are both by a man and of a man.

(source, a very long document which I rather doubt that anyone bar the editor has ever read all the way through)

Since I am not entirely sure what point barbados is trying to make, the relevance of this information to that point is left as an exercise.

 
barbados
1295987.  Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:33 pm Reply with quote

The point I was making was in response to AFB's contributions.

In as much as Alexander Howard's suggestion that in order to prevent the criminal from committing the crime you should give him responsibility. Apparently that caused some kind of offence, I was merely pointing out that statistically the criminal is going to be male, so the term him would be understandable. Although for some we would need to cover every gender combination to prevent causing *insert objective pronoun of choice* offence.

 

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