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Life Imprisonment...or not?

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suze
1296010.  Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:08 am Reply with quote

I don't have a huge problem with using him to mean "a person of whichever sex". "The masculine is taken to embrace the feminine", as a certain kind of French teacher was wont to say a generation ago.

Society has moved on a bit from there and we shouldn't use him all the time, and in fact I quite often use her to mean "a person of whichever sex". You can use either, you can use things like him/her and s/he but they are cumbersome, and you can use they but some find it inelegant.

Since, as we have established, murder is predominantly a male pursuit and since Alexander did say that he was talking specifically about men, no huge problem so far. It was "give him a wife" to which there was most objection. Not all people are heterosexual, not all people have any interest in marriage, not all men who are interested in marriage would make good husbands, and so on and so forth.

 
Zziggy
1296328.  Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:27 pm Reply with quote

Well there's that, or the fact that women aren't little trophies that you get to allot to men as an incentive or reward for good behaviour...

 
'yorz
1296334.  Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:59 pm Reply with quote

post 1295869
As I already pointed out.

 
Zziggy
1296338.  Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:13 pm Reply with quote

Sorry, missed it.

 
Jenny
1296349.  Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:13 pm Reply with quote

Bill Cosby got 3-10 years, which at the age of 81 could literally be a life sentence. Deserved it though.

 
Efros
1384263.  Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:54 pm Reply with quote

WTAF!!

 
Alexander Howard
1384290.  Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:18 am Reply with quote

Thank goodness - now is it safe to say I have always enjoyed Bill Cosby's work on stage and screen?

 
Spike
1384292.  Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:00 am Reply with quote

He's a nasty, manipulative, egotistical rapist who got off on a technicality. But he was mildly funny, so that makes it alright then doesn't it?
You've plumbed new depths there, Mr Howard.

 
Alexander Howard
1384296.  Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:45 am Reply with quote

Chaucer was a rapist. That does not mean I have to stop reading the Canterbury Tales. Caravaggio was a murderer. Franz Lehár sucked up to Hitler. The merits of a man's work do not depend on his moral character.

 
Jenny
1384304.  Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:31 am Reply with quote

I'm sure both Hitler and Vlad the Impaler were charming to people they liked, and cracked jokes and loved dogs. That doesn't make them admirable.

 
Jenny
1384305.  Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:32 am Reply with quote

Anyway, Cosby was set free on a technicality. This release is not any indication that he was not guilty as accused, or that he has been exonerated.

 
Alexander Howard
1384309.  Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:48 am Reply with quote

I would not wish to share chit-chat with either mass-murderer, but if either had written a great opera, I would listen to it on its merits. The artistic merits of Vlad Tepes may never be known - we know Hitler's art was no better than an amateur chocolate-box painter so we need not worry about it.

Louis David had more blood on his hands than any other true artist on record as far as I can tell, but I would uphold his work as sublime beauty. I would not wish to share a table. with him, revolting man as he was, but would gladly hang one of his paintings (if I had millions of pounds to acquire one).

I had no worries about playing Rolf Harris songs to my children when they were tiny: it's only his voice and not as if he was going to erupt out of the CD player to attack them.

You can enjoy a performance without thinking the performer is admirable.

 
cornixt
1384310.  Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:20 am Reply with quote

If you don't want to seem like you condone the actions of an artist, you'll want to phrase your praise of the artists work as being specifically about their work, and maybe not buy/view anything that they will profit from. Even then, some people will see your support for their work as being support for them as a person.

It's a lot easier to justify enjoying the works of a person who died and their victims died over a century ago than someone who has dozens of victims still suffering from it today.

 
crissdee
1384314.  Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:17 am Reply with quote

I kind of share AH's attitude here.

Henry Ford was a despicable man, a fascist, racist, anti-semite, who had to be publicly shamed into contributing to the fund for the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior, despite having personally trousered $10 million in profits from selling vehicles to the Us Army during WW1 (and that was $10m in 1918 dollars). Having said that, his name is on some of the greatest cars ever to come out of America, or anywhere else for that matter, many of which I would dearly love to own.

 
PDR
1384315.  Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:25 am Reply with quote

Jenny wrote:
Anyway, Cosby was set free on a technicality. This release is not any indication that he was not guilty as accused, or that he has been exonerated.


On the purely technical point - this release indicates that he did not receive a fair trial, and so whilst not exonerated neither is he found guilty. He is actually returned to the state of pre-trial presumed innocence while the authorities try to decide:

1. SHOULD they hold another re-trial, and if so;
2. CAN they hold a fair retrial with a truly unprejudiced jury

I suspect they will conclude that while they SHOULD hold a retrial it would be extremely difficult to achieve in a demonstrably fair manner.

I hold no brief for Mr Cosby, but what has happened here is that the prosecutor got carried away. Having failed to get a conviction in the first trial they drove a coach & four through the law and judicial procedure in stacking the witnesses for the re-trial. This was always going to result in legal angst, and it is that misconduct which has created this situation in which it will probably be deemed impossible to now subject him to a fair trial.

I really do understand how much pain this would cause a genuine victim* but it's not Cosby's fault - they need to direct their anger at the DA who sanctioned the extra witnesses at the second trial, and the judge who ruled them admissible. That's why we have the rules in the first place. If we decide we don't have to play by the rules we are no different to Putin, Ping, Johnson, Patel, Trump and all the other vile despots that walk the face of the planet.

PDR

* I'm not making any suggestion that complainants may not be genuine - I'm just being careful not to publish an allegation which the forum's owners could be called on to substantiate.

 

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