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Gaza

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'yorz
1284131.  Tue May 15, 2018 7:10 am Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6VhAhLxo2A

WTAF?? State-sanctioned genocide. But go ahead, trump - wallow in Netanyahu's arselicking. You're being manipulated, but you're too stupid to see it.

 
Alexander Howard
1284209.  Wed May 16, 2018 7:26 am Reply with quote

Yes we can weep for the fallen and despair at the inhumanity.

It would sound more appropriate though if you would refrain from attaching the word 'genocide' where it does not belong and just say 'massacre', and if you would also condemn Hamas. Hamas is a relentless terrorist organisation, ruling Gaza with an iron fist. It whips up hatred amongst the tender generation, but as those it cannot 'charm' in that way, they are compelled at gunpoint to send women and children into the path of bullets.

On the border that day there were guns, firebombs, lead slingshot (crumbs - Hamas were even putting deadly weapons into the hands of children!) Condemn the deadly force if you will, but condemn it on both sides.

 
'yorz
1284210.  Wed May 16, 2018 8:25 am Reply with quote

Yes, massacre is much better. And yes, Hamas is a vile organisation. OK?
How about the Gazans who are stuck between a rock and a hard place? Israel has now the unquestioning support of tRump, who is backed financially and through vote by the Christian US voters, and gladly accepts Netanyahu's arselicking. Netanyahu crowing, "The Temple Mount is in our hands!" is the most provoking thing he could have said. I suspect he is desperately longing for a Third Intifada, so he can really let rip.

Many American and UK Jews openly give vent to their disgust re the Israeli government's attitude.
The whole situation was entirely avoidable.

 
brunel
1284252.  Thu May 17, 2018 1:57 am Reply with quote

'yorz wrote:
Yes, massacre is much better. And yes, Hamas is a vile organisation. OK?
How about the Gazans who are stuck between a rock and a hard place? Israel has now the unquestioning support of tRump, who is backed financially and through vote by the Christian US voters, and gladly accepts Netanyahu's arselicking. Netanyahu crowing, "The Temple Mount is in our hands!" is the most provoking thing he could have said. I suspect he is desperately longing for a Third Intifada, so he can really let rip.

Many American and UK Jews openly give vent to their disgust re the Israeli government's attitude.
The whole situation was entirely avoidable.

Alexander's post does feel like it has shades of Trump's statement about the violence during the protests against white supremacists in the US, where he also looked to condemn violence "on both sides".

Whilst Hamas are not without criticism, I do agree that Netanyahu's behaviour does seem to be intent on stoking tensions and inflaming the situation. However, I would suspect that the main reason for that is that Netanyahu is currently under investigation by the police over alleged large scale corruption by himself and close associates - his moves seem intended to draw attention from himself and to appeal to the hard right and more extreme religious fanatics in Israel that support his faction.

 
franticllama
1284294.  Thu May 17, 2018 9:30 am Reply with quote

Hmm, why does that tactic sound familiar?

 
'yorz
1284336.  Thu May 17, 2018 5:04 pm Reply with quote

Intoxicated by Trump and Netanyahu, Diaspora Jews Are Abandoning Their Conscience - a Haaretz article, ending thusly:

Quote:
We are witnessing recklessness, complacency and a dearth of responsible leadership, packaged as a masterstroke in a grand plan we never get to see.

But long after President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu have left office, Israelis will be picking up the pieces. And those of us in the Jewish world, who went along with their vanity projects and became intoxicated on their fumes, will wake up to one hell of a hangover.

 
bobwilson
1284451.  Fri May 18, 2018 7:57 pm Reply with quote

Isn't the fundamental problem here that the wrong question is always being asked?

This entire conflict seems to centre around the question of who owns/has jurisdiction over which bit of land - with the underlying assumption that productivity is based upon control of land. That's such an 18th century way of viewing the world.

The real resource in Gaza is labour. There's thousands of people there who are just looking for something to do. If the Israeli government had any sense they'd subsidise Israeli entrepeneurial investment in production facilities in Gaza - insisting on "modern" standards (eg excellent health and safety, an exemplary policy on time off etc).

Politically, it'd be suicide to suggest such a policy - even though the outcome is by far the best.

 
dr.bob
1284759.  Tue May 22, 2018 8:56 am Reply with quote

You really think the residents of Gaza would happily work in Israeli-owned factories helping to make their Israeli masters richer and more powerful?

If the Israeli government subsidised Israeli entrepreneurial investment in production facilities in Gaza, arson rates in Gaza would skyrocket.

 
CB27
1285280.  Mon May 28, 2018 12:47 pm Reply with quote

Whilst it's not a simple answer and not the solution, it should be noted that for a whole generation until the early 90s Palestinian men and women worked in Israel in huge numbers.

It was often said that if you wanted a doctor, lawyer or teacher, you employed an Israeli, if you wanted your house built, your factories worked, etc, then you employed palestinians.

It's interesting to note that since the intifada and the massive restrictions placed on Palestinians coming into Israel, there has been a massive influx of people from Philippines, Romania, and several other countries, and Israel now experiences the same kind of public reactions that other countries have seen after an influx of people and the economic downturn after 2007.

Finding jobs and employing people won't solve the problem, but it definitely helps.

However, it then rests on power and money.

It's easier for a Government to stay in power if there is a common enemy for the peopole to fear. This is true of both sides (actually there are so many different sides, but that's a different discussion...).

The irony is that investing in manufacturing is cheaper than spending on military and police, but doesn't grow the economy as much. Military spending means lots of service, lobbying and law, and these are invested on with a greater exposure than industrial investment, thus bringing billions to the banking industry, and that helps create this strange false economic strength that many countries rely on for trade.

 
suze
1285301.  Mon May 28, 2018 4:49 pm Reply with quote

The paragraphs above are interesting in the light of today's news that Roman Abramowicz has became an Israeli citizen.

Mr Abramowicz is Jewish, and so his path to Israeli citizenship will have been a reasonably straightforward one. But it is reported that the paperwork usually takes several months, while in his case it appears to have been done on the spot. Who has paid large sums of money to whom in order to expedite the process we don't need to know, but it seems probable.

It was reported a few weeks back that he had been refused on applying to renew the visa which allows him to live in London. Whether he is now done with London and will henceforth spend his money in Tel Aviv, or whether the Israeli citizenship is a ruse because Israeli citizens do not require a visa to enter the UK (which Russian citizens do) remains to be seen.

 
tetsabb
1285326.  Tue May 29, 2018 4:53 am Reply with quote

Lawks, suze, are you suggesting that Господин Абрамович got something quicker due to his wealth?

 
suze
1285348.  Tue May 29, 2018 8:23 am Reply with quote

I know that such a thing is hard to imagine, and I also know that he has lawyers which is why I didn't make the suggestion in quite so many words.

But it seems possible, certainly.

 

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