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Sledging (in cricket, not on snow)

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barbados
1278109.  Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:54 am Reply with quote

One positive to come from this, it did lead me to underarmgate, something that I was aware of, but thought it was more recent. Turns out Australia have been cheating a lot longer than they get credit for

 
ali
1278113.  Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:39 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
I may be mistaken, but something is whispering in the back of my mind that Mr Atherton is currently sitting on a first class hat trick.


Atherton got a hat trick for Blackpool against West Derby in 2008 :-D

Seriously; it is possible, since he has taken 5 in a first class innings 3 times. I haven't found anything definite though.

 
suze
1278183.  Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:07 pm Reply with quote

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
Australia manage the system well, but should pay a bit more attention to how they are perceived by the rest of the world.


The impression I get is that they know very well how they are perceived, and don't much care. If an England supporter tells an Aussie that the Australian team behave like school yard bullies, the Aussie's retort will be along the lines of "Beat us sometime, and then we'll talk about it". (Ashes series played in England don't count, obviously!)

Alf wrote:
South Africa should get over their victim mentality and start taking the guidance offered by officials more seriously.


It is the opinion of the good husband that the same applies, but twenty times over, to Pakistan.

 
barbados
1278189.  Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:44 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
(Ashes series played in England don't count, obviously!)


I suppose the times we've won there didn't count either then ;)

 
brunel
1278969.  Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:37 pm Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
One positive to come from this, it did lead me to underarmgate, something that I was aware of, but thought it was more recent. Turns out Australia have been cheating a lot longer than they get credit for

Speaking of which, Cameron Bancroft has now admitted that he attempted to tamper with the ball during the third test against South Africa by trying to use electrical tape to roughen the ball with dirt from the wicket.

To make matters worse, Steve Smith has now admitted that he, and other senior members of the players "leadership group" knew and approved Bancroft's plans before the game began. However, whilst acknowledging that what they were planning to do was against the rules and apologising for that, Smith has said that he, nor any of the other players who were involved, will not be standing down for approving Bancroft's behaviour.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43526870

 
Alfred E Neuman
1278994.  Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:02 pm Reply with quote

I don't think they just approved of Bancroft's behaviour, I think they told him to do it.

 
suze
1279038.  Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:04 am Reply with quote

It has become clear that what Alfred says above is right on the money. A plan to change the condition of the ball in a way that is not allowed was hatched by the team's "leadership group" - although as yet we don't know precisely who that means - and Bancroft was the fall guy, a relatively new member of the team who was tasked with actually doing what had been decided upon

Cricket Australia has taken a decision which my tame cricket expert thinks may be unprecedented. It has removed the captain and vice-captain (Steve Smith and David Warner) from their positions mid-game. They continue to play in the current game, but the wicketkeeper Tim Paine has assumed the captaincy pro tem.

Paine had been intending to bring his international career to an end after the current game and one more in Jo'burg next week. Whether that plan will now change who knows, but it was something of a surprise when he returned to the national team at the age of 33 and he is seen as rather a fringe member of the squad. That may be precisely why he was chosen to captain the side in the present circumstances, but few expect him to be the national captain in the long term.

Smith is suspended for next week's game in any case, but must surely have the captaincy taken from him permanently. It seems likely that Cricket Australia will send him, and Warner, and Bancroft back to Australia at the end of the current game. Bancroft's sentence will then have been served, but Smith and Warner must expect a longer period on the sidelines.

At this stage it is unclear whether or not the coach Darren Lehmann knew what his players were up to. If he did, then he will surely be fired. If he didn't, is there an argument that it's his job to know that sort of thing and so he will be fired anyway?

 
'yorz
1279048.  Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:43 am Reply with quote

I don't understand how they could expect to get away with tv cameras and photographers all over the place.

 
Alfred E Neuman
1279061.  Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:25 am Reply with quote

It seems pretty clear that Lehmann told the 12th man something by walkie talkie just after they started screening Bancroft’s hand down his trousers, and he then went on field and spoke to Bancroft. Of course hat could be coincidental, but I’d be bloody surprised if it was. Given Lehmann’s inciting Aussie crowds to hound Chris Broad and send him home, I doubt he’s the sort of guy they’d have felt it necessary to hide what they were doing from.

I’ll stick my neck out here, and just say it - I think he’s in on it.

 
suze
1279063.  Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:31 am Reply with quote

I tend to agree with you, although husband goes the other way.

He reckons that Lehmann saw the TV footage of Bancroft, and summoned the 12th man to say to him "WTF is Bancroft doing, get on the field and find out".

The other interpretation is of course "Oh fuck, he's been caught, you'd better go and tell him", and that's more where you and I are coming from.

 
Alfred E Neuman
1279067.  Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:51 am Reply with quote

Given that husband is a lot closer to cricket than I am, he almost certainly knows more about the individual personalities involved than I do. It’s either the cynic in me, or just the mandatory dislike of Aussie cricketers that we’re born with over here that makes me think he knew.

Having said that, both Kevin Pietersen and Shane Warne tweeted that the captain and coach were likely to be involved.

 
franticllama
1279075.  Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:26 am Reply with quote

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
Given Lehmann’s inciting Aussie crowds to hound Chris Broad and send him home, I doubt he’s the sort of guy they’d have felt it necessary to hide what they were doing from.

I’ll stick my neck out here, and just say it - I think he’s in on it.

Minor technical point, you've got the wrong Broad. It's Stuart who was targeted, not Chris.

I do agree with you though. Steyn also tweeted to say nothing on a professional pitch happens without the approval of the coach and captain. But then why didn't he own up? Surely the best time to do so would be when all the others were admitting to the plan. So then either he didn't know, or he lacks so much integrity that he would let his players take the fall.
The thing that really gets me, is that the "leadership group" who concocted this plan got the youngest and most inexperienced player to carry it out. That's just low, even for the Aussie's.

 
brunel
1279078.  Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:34 am Reply with quote

franticllama wrote:
Alfred E Neuman wrote:
Given Lehmann’s inciting Aussie crowds to hound Chris Broad and send him home, I doubt he’s the sort of guy they’d have felt it necessary to hide what they were doing from.

I’ll stick my neck out here, and just say it - I think he’s in on it.

Minor technical point, you've got the wrong Broad. It's Stuart who was targeted, not Chris.

I do agree with you though. Steyn also tweeted to say nothing on a professional pitch happens without the approval of the coach and captain. But then why didn't he own up? Surely the best time to do so would be when all the others were admitting to the plan. So then either he didn't know, or he lacks so much integrity that he would let his players take the fall.
The thing that really gets me, is that the "leadership group" who concocted this plan got the youngest and most inexperienced player to carry it out. That's just low, even for the Aussie's.

And it seems that the ICC have taken a similar stance - whilst Bancroft has been fined and given demerit points, it is Smith who has been given the heavier penalty (stripped of his entire fee and being banned from the final game), with the ICC making it clear that they felt that Smith was responsible for the conduct of his players. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43531491

 
Alfred E Neuman
1279082.  Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:06 pm Reply with quote

franticllama wrote:
Minor technical point, you've got the wrong Broad. It's Stuart who was targeted, not Chris.


Bugger. As I typed that I told myself to check before posting, but quite obviously, I didn’t.

 
suze
1279093.  Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:40 pm Reply with quote

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
Given that husband is a lot closer to cricket than I am, he almost certainly knows more about the individual personalities involved than I do.


English players, maybe. The only member of the Australian squad that he's met is Sevenoaks Steve himself, and he doesn't think that Smith would have concocted this all on his own. He tends to think it was probably Warner's idea, but then he's never been a big Warner fan.

But as for Lehmann, his opinion had been that Lehmann is an abrasive sort of a guy and possibly not a very nice man, but that he is not a cheat. However ... Andy and I have now seen what we hadn't seen before, the video of the moment where Lehmann discovers that something is going on.

It's been put on YouTube by an Australian TV station, so you can see it here. At 1:25, the man with not much hair and a green jacket is Lehmann; the man clutching a football* a few seconds letter is the Australian 12th man Peter Handscombe.

Why is Handscombe giggling? Has Lehmann said to him "Peter, get out there and ask Bancroft why he appears to be wanking on the field", or has he said "We've been busted"? If anyone can lip read, what is Handscombe saying to the person to his right?


* Mr Handscombe hails from Melbourne, so it's likely to be an Aussie rules ball rather than a rugby ball.

 

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