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Valet

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BernieM
1265160.  Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:29 am Reply with quote

https://blog.oup.com/2013/04/french-words-in-english-niche-valet-ballet/

 
BernieM
1265163.  Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:33 am Reply with quote

Also:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YtojrMr0Ft4C&pg=PA484&lpg=PA484&dq=valet+“pseudo+french”&source=bl&ots=FNCDTV8kqf&sig=BglcckiBlXMhCSp4ZzxVXM8UhNU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxw_mTrvDXAhUJBMAKHR71CRQQ6AEIJzAB#v=onepage&q=valet%20“pseudo%20french”&f=false

 
tetsabb
1265211.  Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:23 pm Reply with quote

Should we 'ask Jeeves' on this issue?

 
Bondee
1265223.  Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:56 pm Reply with quote

BernieM wrote:
In this week’s show Sandy referred to a valet in a discussion about valets and butlers.
‘Valet’, however, rhymes with mallet, and not ballet.


While we're being pedantic, Sandi spells her name with an i, not a y.

 
suze
1265257.  Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:01 pm Reply with quote

Valet is a bit of an odd one. The French word from which it is derived is valette, which makes the "VAL-it" pronunciation etymologically sounder.

All the same, it's not the one that I would use. As a North American I would say va-LAY, while British people would be more likely to say VA-lay. (It is fairly common for words of French origin to be stressed differently in Britain and North America, and there are examples both ways around. Garage vs moustache.)

I'm reading suggestions that, in Britain at least, there is a class distinction in pronunciation. Those posh enough actually to have a gentleman's personal gentleman pronounce him to rhyme with mallet; those who just wish they could afford one pronounce him to rhyme with ballet.

Is the word ever used in the Fry and Laurie Jeeves and Wooster, and if so which way is it pronounced? (Hugh Laurie went to Eton, so I'm willing to take his word for it re how posh people talk!)

 
ali
1265265.  Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:02 pm Reply with quote

Jeeves and Wooster episode 1 - Bertie is about to use the word 'valets'.

 
suze
1265272.  Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:03 pm Reply with quote

Good work ali. The suggestions I was reading appear to hold a non-zero amount of water.

 
Alfred E Neuman
1265282.  Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:12 am Reply with quote

So, have we established that BernieM is quite posh then? :-)

 
suze
1265448.  Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:37 pm Reply with quote

He will have to answer that for himself, but it is possible.

I note from Bernie's profile that he is from Monmouthshire. The mallet classes tend to think that Monmouthshire is in "England really", and the town of Monmouth itself once sought to switch into Herefordshire if it were ever declared definitively that Monmouthshire is in Wales. That was in fact so declared in 1972, but the town of Monmouth is still in Wales.

 
BernieM
1265804.  Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:16 pm Reply with quote

Yes indeed I am posh; I am both disgustingly rich and have the class to have a full fruit bowl, even when no-one is ill. 😀

 
PDR
1265805.  Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:23 pm Reply with quote

Doesn't everyone? To be properly posh you have to have a footman whose sole duty is to dust and polish the fruit in the fruit bowl every hour (on the hour, day and night). Unfortunately in these times of austerity we have been compelled to make this a supplementary duty for one of the other footmen, but then we must all tighten our belts together, what!

PDR

 
crissdee
1265825.  Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:02 pm Reply with quote

"Dammit man! Can't a fellow have a biscuit???"

 
Feralcat
1278436.  Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:32 am Reply with quote

If Stephen Fry is accepted as an equal final authority as Hugh Laurie, I can't remember the episode but I recall him correcting someone and making a comment afterwards

He definitely said

It's valet.(with the t)

I think I have heard the old Duke of Devonshire say it, as well - but not in conversation with me!

Ps crissdee I recognise the quote - was it the D of Devonshire again?

One of the Dukes, anyway...

Told he could surely let go ONE of his pastry cooks for the war effort?

 
Baryonyx
1278453.  Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:36 am Reply with quote

Here you are!

 
Feralcat
1278572.  Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:55 pm Reply with quote

Thank you and well done!

I can never remember where I find/read these things and rarely am able to then put it into an answer, being old and a technophobe.

I can't even understand the simplest instructions for the techno saddos
All I can do is type out the title I found the info on and recommend the author I read IF it was on the internet

I read it in a book rather than online - but which book, in which decade, is usually beyond me.

 

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