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Tas
76498.  Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:18 am Reply with quote

Quote:
111=7=seven


True. It's binary, isn't it?

:-)

Tas

 
mckeonj
76504.  Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:30 am Reply with quote

the symbol 7 is not the name of the symbol

 
Hans Mof
76539.  Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:47 am Reply with quote

mckeonj wrote:
the symbol 7 is not the name of the symbol


It is not? So what's its name?


Allright, enough brain racking. Here goes:

When we read an English text containing the string 7, we will utter /‘sevn/. But with this utterance there also corresponds, in English, the string “seven“. So if the spoken utterance really is an utterance of 7, then it follows that 7=seven. But in a similar way we could argue that 7=sieben, where sieben is the German word for seven.
Ergo seven=sieben. Quod non.

“7“ as used in English written text and in German written text always realised the single word “7“. However, when we ‘pronounce’ it we substitute the pronunciation of a different, closely related, word, /‘sevn/ in English and /‘zi:bn/ in German.

Wasn't that hard, was it?

;) <- I won't ask, how to pronounce that one.

 
mckeonj
76579.  Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:16 pm Reply with quote

That's what I was saying earlier; that the integer 111 (binary) has been assigned to the symbol 7, and both the symbol and the number have the name 'seven'.
As a continental person, do you cross your 7 ?
I ask because that is a QI topic to be explored sometime.

 
Hans Mof
76580.  Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:23 pm Reply with quote

mckeonj wrote:
That's what I was saying earlier; that the integer 111 (binary) has been assigned to the symbol 7, and both the symbol and the number have the name 'seven'.
As a continental person, do you cross your 7 ?
I ask because that is a QI topic to be explored sometime.


Okay, okay. Help yourself to a point or two.

And yes, my 1 has a prominent hook, and I cross my 7. Nothing beats a good crossing, well, maybe a stoning.

 
mckeonj
76581.  Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:41 pm Reply with quote

Here is the relevant passage from Lewis Carroll's "Through the looking glass". Sorry about the formatting!
Quote:
'You are sad,' the Knight said in an anxious tone: 'let me sing you a song to comfort you.' 'Is it very long?' Alice asked, for she had heard a good deal of poetry that day. 'It's long,' said the Knight, 'but very, VERY beautiful. Everybody that hears me sing it--either it brings the TEARS into their eyes, or else--' 'Or else what?' said Alice, for the Knight had made a sudden pause. 'Or else it doesn't, you know. The name of the song is called "HADDOCKS' EYES."' 'Oh, that's the name of the song, is it?' Alice said, trying to feel interested. 'No, you don't understand,' the Knight said, looking a little vexed. 'That's what the name is CALLED. The name really IS "THE AGED AGED MAN."' 'Then I ought to have said "That's what the SONG is called"?' Alice corrected herself. 'No, you oughtn't: that's quite another thing! The SONG is called "WAYS AND MEANS": but that's only what it's CALLED, you know!' 'Well, what IS the song, then?' said Alice, who was by this time completely bewildered. 'I was coming to that,' the Knight said. 'The song really IS "A-SITTING ON A GATE": and the tune's my own invention.'
So saying, he stopped his horse and let the reins fall on its neck: then, slowly beating time with one hand, and with a faint smile lighting up his gentle foolish face, as if he enjoyed the music of his song, he began. Of all the strange things that Alice saw in her journey Through The Looking-Glass, this was the one that she always remembered most clearly. Years afterwards she could bring the whole scene back again, as if it had been only yesterday--the mild blue eyes and kindly smile of the Knight--the setting sun gleaming through his hair, and shining on his armour in a blaze of light that quite dazzled her--the horse quietly moving about, with the reins hanging loose on his neck, cropping the grass at her feet--and the black shadows of the forest behind--all this she took in like a picture, as, with one hand shading her eyes, she leant against a tree, watching the strange pair, and listening, in a half dream, to the melancholy music of the song. 'But the tune ISN'T his own invention,' she said to herself: 'it's "I GIVE THEE ALL, I CAN NO MORE."' She stood and listened very attentively, but no tears came into her eyes.

'I'll tell thee everything I can; There's little to relate. I saw an aged aged man, A-sitting on a gate. "Who are you, aged man?" I said, "and how is it you live?" And his answer trickled through my head Like water through a sieve. He said "I look for butterflies That sleep among the wheat: I make them into mutton-pies, And sell them in the street. I sell them unto men," he said, "Who sail on stormy seas; And that's the way I get my bread-- A trifle, if you please." But I was thinking of a plan To dye one's whiskers green, And always use so large a fan That they could not be seen. So, having no reply to give To what the old man said, I cried, "Come, tell me how you live!" And thumped him on the head. His accents mild took up the tale: He said "I go my ways, And when I find a mountain-rill, I set it in a blaze; And thence they make a stuff they call Rolands' Macassar Oil-- Yet twopence-halfpenny is all They give me for my toil." But I was thinking of a way To feed oneself on batter, And so go on from day to day Getting a little fatter. I shook him well from side to side, Until his face was blue: "Come, tell me how you live," I cried, "And what it is you do!" He said "I hunt for haddocks' eyes Among the heather bright, And work them into waistcoat-buttons In the silent night. And these I do not sell for gold Or coin of silvery shine But for a copper halfpenny, And that will purchase nine. "I sometimes dig for buttered rolls, Or set limed twigs for crabs; I sometimes search the grassy knolls For wheels of Hansom-cabs. And that's the way" (he gave a wink) "By which I get my wealth-- And very gladly will I drink Your Honour's noble health." I heard him then, for I had just Completed my design To keep the Menai bridge from rust By boiling it in wine. I thanked him much for telling me The way he got his wealth, But chiefly for his wish that he Might drink my noble health. And now, if e'er by chance I put My fingers into glue Or madly squeeze a right-hand foot Into a left-hand shoe, Or if I drop upon my toe A very heavy weight, I weep, for it reminds me so, Of that old man I used to know-- Whose look was mild, whose speech was slow, Whose hair was whiter than the snow, Whose face was very like a crow, With eyes, like cinders, all aglow, Who seemed distracted with his woe, Who rocked his body to and fro, And muttered mumblingly and low, As if his mouth were full of dough, Who snorted like a buffalo-- That summer evening, long ago, A-sitting on a gate.'

 
Saxmachine
76616.  Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:56 am Reply with quote

Hans Mof wrote:
When we read an English text containing the string 7, we will utter /‘sevn/. But with this utterance there also corresponds, in English, the string “seven“. So if the spoken utterance really is an utterance of 7, then it follows that 7=seven. But in a similar way we could argue that 7=sieben, where sieben is the German word for seven.
Ergo seven=sieben. Quod non.

“7“ as used in English written text and in German written text always realised the single word “7“. However, when we ‘pronounce’ it we substitute the pronunciation of a different, closely related, word, /‘sevn/ in English and /‘zi:bn/ in German.


So all you're actually saying is that there's more than one way of "saying" the symbol 7, mainly because different languages have different words for the number we take it to represent?

 
djgordy
76620.  Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:55 am Reply with quote

If all you are saying is that there is more than one word for the number which represented by the symbol '7', then your question isn't tricky at all. 7=Seven. True. The fact that 7 might = something else doesn't alter the truth of that statement.

For instance, you could say: 7 = 5+2

That is true and is not made tricky by the fact that 7=6+1, or 7=3+4.

 
Hans Mof
76623.  Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:03 am Reply with quote

Saxmachine wrote:
So all you're actually saying is that there's more than one way of "saying" the symbol 7, mainly because different languages have different words for the number we take it to represent?


If you want it that simple: Yes.

Here is a more complex explanation, allowing me to say ‘no‘.

‘7‘ is a logogram representing the word ‘seven‘. It is not a word in itself. Not being a word it can‘t be pronounced. When we say ‘seven‘ we substitute the symbol ‘7‘ with the word ‘seven‘. Another example:

:-)

Emoticons like this do have a meaning. Still, they can‘t be pronounced.Therefor, :-) and ‘7‘ are peculiar to writing, not to speach.

 
Hans Mof
76625.  Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:15 am Reply with quote

djgordy wrote:
The fact that 7 might = something else doesn't alter the truth of that statement.

For instance, you could say: 7 = 5+2

That is true and is not made tricky by the fact that 7=6+1, or 7=3+4.


Yes, but you're adding numbers not words.

'seven' = 'five plus two' false

 
Hans Mof
85243.  Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:10 am Reply with quote

Sorry to dig this thread up again, but I just wanted to share this:

11+2=13
12+1=13

eleven plus two equals thirteen
twelve plus one equals thirteen

Both the numeric version and the written one are anagrams.

 
Tas
85285.  Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:36 am Reply with quote

eleven plus two = twelve plus one

:-)

Tas

 
grizzly
85288.  Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:43 am Reply with quote

I never understood this thread.

 
ali
122684.  Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:39 pm Reply with quote

Maybe 7={'seven','sieben','sept','zazpi','fitu','yedi',...} ? :)

 
Gaazy
123166.  Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:21 am Reply with quote

Hans Mof wrote:
‘7‘ is a logogram representing the word ‘seven‘. It is not a word in itself. Not being a word it can‘t be pronounced. When we say ‘seven‘ we substitute the symbol ‘7‘ with the word ‘seven‘.

This is how Chinese works.

When I learned years ago that, although all Chinese dialects are written the same, they're mutually unintelligible when spoken, my bafflement was banished by the explanation that numerals work in exactly the same way - everybody in the world, practically, knows exactly what they mean, but each numeral has thousands of different names.

 

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