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Daylight saving

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GuyBarry
1252628.  Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:01 am Reply with quote

In another thread, monzac wrote (from Australia):

Quote:
...we've just begun daylight saving...


Well, good for you. Here in the northern hemisphere, we're past the equinox, and we should have ended daylight saving by now.

But no. According to timeanddate.com, the times of sunrise and sunset in Bath, where I live, are 07:13 to 18:42. By the time it gets to 28 October (the day before the clocks go back in the European Union), they'll be 07:55 to 17:49.

I hate the morning darkness in the second half of October. There's no need for it. It makes me feel as though we're in the middle of winter instead of the start of autumn. There's nothing similar at the beginning of British Summer Time; we put the clocks forward at the end of March, not in mid-February.

And the worst thing about it is that every year, when the clocks go back at the end of October, people moan about how dark the evenings are. Well of course they are, because no one's had an opportunity to adjust to the dark evenings. The clock change occurs at a time when most people are coming back from work, and it's a shock.

I think the clocks should be put back in the northern hemisphere around the end of September, not the end of October. Is there any rational explanation for the current arrangements?

 
crissdee
1252683.  Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:33 pm Reply with quote

I think they should put the clocks forward/back to the mid position next time, then just leave the bloody things alone! If it's dark, put the lights on!

I realise there are probably technical reasons why this couldn't be done, but I can dream........

 
franticllama
1252688.  Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:47 pm Reply with quote

I'm with Criss on this one.

 
bemahan
1252694.  Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:18 pm Reply with quote

I am too, with my sensible head on, but I can't quite face relinquish the joy of the extra hour in bed.
The spring jump forward is a bit like childbirth for me: I forget about the unpleasant aspects ;)

 
GuyBarry
1252695.  Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:20 pm Reply with quote

bemahan wrote:
I am too, with my sensible head on, but I can't quite face relinquish the joy of the extra hour in bed.


Well you'd still get an extra hour in bed under my proposals. It would just happen a month earlier :-)

 
Alfred E Neuman
1252751.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:52 am Reply with quote

We donít do daylight saving here, we just take it as it comes. Been working well for us for hundreds of years.

 
GuyBarry
1252759.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:28 am Reply with quote

It's only about a hundred years old anyway. The first country to adopt it was Germany in 1916. Britain followed suit shortly afterwards.

 
barbados
1252761.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:30 am Reply with quote

If you struggle with daylight saving, then think of the good people of Arizona, where some places have daylight saving, and some don't.

 
GuyBarry
1252765.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:49 am Reply with quote

Most of Arizona has no DST, apart from the Navajo Nation, which observes it.

At least, that's what I thought until I checked the Time and Date site, and discovered that the Hopi Nation has a different rule:

timeand date.com wrote:

A part of the Hopi Nation, which lies within the Navajo Nation, follows Arizona's no-DST rule. To confuse matters more, there is also an even smaller Navajo Nation territory within the Hopi Nation within the Navajo Nation. In addition to this, there is another Hopi area adjacent to the main Hopi Nation territory.

As a result, if driving the correct route from the Arizona state border through both Navajo and Hopi areas to the other side one can end up changing one's clock 7 times! For example: Tuba City (Navajo) and Moenkopi (Hopi) are only a couple of miles apart, but they have a 1-hour time difference during the summer. Jeddito (Navajo), in the middle of Hopi Nation territory, is 1 hour ahead of the surrounding areas during summer.

 
Baryonyx
1252823.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:58 am Reply with quote

Interesting video on this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84aWtseb2-4

(that you've probably all seen in order to get your titbits!)

 
GuyBarry
1252896.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:05 am Reply with quote

To get back to my original point: what's the justification for extending daylight saving in the northern hemisphere into October?

When I was a child in the 1970s, individual European countries had their own dates for daylight saving, which caused a lot of disruption to transport timetables. Eventually the continental western European countries agreed that their clocks would go forward in mid-April, and back at the end of September.

Britain, predictably, decided to stand alone from its European neighbours, and continued its practice of putting the clocks forward in mid-March and back at the end of October. (Ireland, as so often, was forced to follow British practice.)

A compromise was then reached between Britain and continental Europe whereby the clocks would go forward at the end of March. Unfortunately, no similar compromise was reached on the end of summer time, and an unsatisfactory situation continued during the 80s whereby continental western Europe went back at the end of September, but Britain and Ireland continued to go back at the end of October. (This meant that we were one hour behind continental western Europe for 11 months of the year, but on the same time for a single month.)

Eventually, in a move that has rarely been repeated, we persuaded the rest of the EC countries to fall into line with us, and daylight saving across the EC was extended to the end of October, even in southern countries like Spain where it wasn't necessary or particularly desirable. This has been the situation ever since then.

Meanwhile, the USA has extended daylight saving into the first week of November, apparently in order to allow children to go out trick-or-treating at Hallowe'en in safety. (I thought the whole point about Hallowe'en was that it is dark.)

Why do we need "summer time" in the autumn?

 
PDR
1252917.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:25 pm Reply with quote

GuyBarry wrote:

Eventually, in a move that has rarely been repeated, we persuaded the rest of the EC countries to fall into line with us [...]


Oh for crying out loud will you get off your fucking hobby horse for once!!

It is utterly untrue to suggest that the EU adopting UK processes, practices or conventions is unusual. A fairly sizeable proportion of EU legislation and Commission Directives are actually just the EU adopting UK laws as best practice and applying them to the whole Eu either in principle (eg the Low Voltage Directive) or essentially verbatim (as with the original Public Sector Procurement Directive).

This is one of those myths the usual suspects trot out, like the number of times the UK is outvoted on QMV issues (with a number that only talks about when we were in the minority, and completely overlooks the number of times the majority were with us - a number which is nearly two orders of magnitude larger).

PDR

 
GuyBarry
1252923.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:55 pm Reply with quote

PDR wrote:
GuyBarry wrote:

Eventually, in a move that has rarely been repeated, we persuaded the rest of the EC countries to fall into line with us [...]


Oh for crying out loud will you get off your fucking hobby horse for once!!


I just made a post that was 27 lines long. You took a single line out of it as some sort of "proof" that I'm always attacking the EU. I'm not. The post was about daylight saving, not about Britain's membership of the EU.

As I have said to you several times now, I supported Britain's membership of the EU. If you want to debate the issue further, please take it to the "Brexit" thread.

 
Alfred E Neuman
1252938.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:22 pm Reply with quote

GuyBarry wrote:
It's only about a hundred years old anyway. The first country to adopt it was Germany in 1916. Britain followed suit shortly afterwards.


And perhaps it made sense 100 years ago when dark was dark, but these days, what's the actual point?

 
GuyBarry
1252945.  Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:39 pm Reply with quote

Alfred E Neuman wrote:
GuyBarry wrote:
It's only about a hundred years old anyway. The first country to adopt it was Germany in 1916. Britain followed suit shortly afterwards.


And perhaps it made sense 100 years ago when dark was dark, but these days, what's the actual point?


I can assure you that it's still as dark now as it was 100 years ago. No one's created extra sunlight.

I think it was originally something to do with workers in munitions factories. The more daylight there was in the evening, the less artificial light was needed, so there was a saving in the nation's power budget.

At the height of summer, it still makes sense to advance the clocks in latitudes away from the Equator. If we didn't have Summer Time, it would be light before 4am in the UK during June and July. Most people are asleep at that time of day. It makes sense to add the daylight to the end of the day when people are in a better position to use it.

But at this time of year, it makes no sense to me. Creating dark, gloomy mornings just so that people can have a bit of extra daylight at the end of the working day seems pointless. And it creates a horrible jolt at the end of October, when the evenings are suddenly plunged into darkness. No one likes it, in my experience.

Equinox to equinox (or a close approximation) would be a far better way of operating daylight saving.

 

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