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Austerity in ruins?

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'yorz
1243492.  Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:49 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
The only thing is, that effect might not be quite immediate, because - and contrary to what the Ministry of Justice said this morning - the right hand appears not to have told the left hand.


From that link -

Quote:
You do not have to pay a fee to make a claim to the Employment Tribunal, even if it says so on the form.

Unless I misunderstand, it does now.

 
suze
1243493.  Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:06 am Reply with quote

They've done reasonably well there - that page has been updated in the two and a half hours between my post and yours.

Reprinting the forms will take a little bit longer, but I'm pleased to see that someone is on the case.

 
Dix
1243673.  Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:55 am Reply with quote

Re fire safety:
Just heard on BBC4 that foam insulation + cheap cladding fails in "mockup wall" fire tests.

(No shit, Sherlock.)

Whereas mineral fibre based insulation + cladding is safe.
I'm sure there'll be more on this in the news today.

I've been keeping an eye on a Danish engineering site for coverage of the Grenfell fire. One comment said "only idiots without any conscience would wrap a building in plastic".

Quite.

Except that I suspect that it only takes idiots with too little knowledge.


Edit: note that "wrapped in plastic" above refers to the foam insulation and panels. Not the proposed weatherproofing.


Last edited by Dix on Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:29 am; edited 1 time in total

 
barbados
1243675.  Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:17 am Reply with quote

I do still get the feeling that the media are trying their hardest to whip up a storm over this fire.
In todays Guardian there is a peice about the service carried out yesterday by the Bishop of York, and it refers to an interview he had outside.
The bit it misses out though is the part where he suggested that people dont rush to make a decision based on their heart rather than their head. He suggested that Moore-Bick is indeed the right person for the job, and rather than look for blame, the residents should look for the truth, and they should assist as much as they can in getting that truth. Not the tone of the report.

 
crissdee
1243680.  Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:44 am Reply with quote

I'm somewhat surprised to hear that they are only now proposing to erect scaffolding around the place and cover it all up. I know that it is far from a simple/cheap process, but the thought of the neigbours and survivors having to see the burnt-out shell every day is terrible. It should have been done as a priority.

 
suze
1243690.  Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:48 am Reply with quote

I suppose the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea's answer to that would be that they have to balance the desire to hide the burnt out building with the interests of the council tax payers who will have to pay for it to be covered up.

There have been suggestions on the news that the RBKC could find itself facing a corporate manslaughter charge. But you can't send a council to prison, and any fine that might be imposed will be paid by the borough's council tax payers. Is that actually in the public interest?

 
dr.bob
1243692.  Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:50 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
I suppose the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea's answer to that would be that they have to balance the desire to hide the burnt out building with the interests of the council tax payers who will have to pay for it to be covered up.


I would imagine it was also slightly affected by the fact that the entire building was the site of an ongoing investigation by the fire service and the police.

 
PDR
1243695.  Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:01 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
There have been suggestions on the news that the RBKC could find itself facing a corporate manslaughter charge. But you can't send a council to prison, and any fine that might be imposed will be paid by the borough's council tax payers. Is that actually in the public interest?


Councillors and officials can be found personally liable:

Guidance given to IoW Councillors wrote:


Personal Liability
Personal liability may arise as explained below in relation to any individual member whose wilful misconduct is found to have caused loss to the Council. Such liability would depend upon the exact role played by the member and the seriousness of the loss.

Misfeasance in public office
Misfeasance in public office is an action against a holder of public office – this covers a range of people including members/councillors. It provides a remedy for persons who are injured by the actions of a public officer who has exercised his powers in bad faith/improperly.

Misfeasance in public office may arise where a member/councillor, exercising powers as a public officer, has acted with malice or in bad faith, being aware of the risk of such injury, without an honest belief that this conduct was lawful. That conduct must have caused the claimant material injury or damage of a sort foreseen by the defendant – ie the member must have actually foreseen that his conduct would probably cause damage of the sort which has been suffered by the claimant. Such damage could arise from an inability to secure services or complete a contractual obligation due to no lawful budget being set.

A claim for misfeasance in public office may be founded on an omission as well as an act. The omission must be deliberate and conscious in order to give rise to liability. There must be a duty to do the act in question. As is set out above, the council has a legal duty to set a lawful budget so a failure to do so will amount to an omission that could be said to be deliberate and conscious.

An action for misfeasance in public office, if proved may result in an order for damages which may include damage to reputation, loss of employment or other economic loss.

Misconduct in Public Office
There are similarities between the tort of misfeasance in public office and the criminal offence of misconduct in public office. With misconduct, the behaviour must be serious enough to amount to an abuse of the public’s trust in the office holder where the misconduct complained of is calculated to injure the public interest, without reasonable excuse or justification. The threshold is higher than for misfeasance in public office.


PDR

 
suze
1243697.  Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:14 am Reply with quote

That too! The fire service and police investigation is expected to last for some months, and in fact - quite apart from the cosmetic improvement - the works which will begin in the next week or two are intended to assist with it.

Unsurprisingly, none of the building's lifts are currently usable. The erection of scaffolding around the building will enable a new lift to be installed, and that will be used to remove items from the building. The police are keen on that because some of those items will be of evidential value, while it will also become possible for personal possessions to be removed from those apartments which were not substantially damaged by the fire.

The wrapping up of the building will also have a practical purpose as well as a cosmetic purpose, since it will stop ash and dust escaping. All the same, local authorities have a duty to consider the interests of the council tax payers before they do almost anything, and this will be no exception.


There's a building wrapped in polythene not all that far from me. It's the Horton Kirby Chimney, which can be seen from the Chatham mainline. It's a listed building which forms part of a disused paper mill, and is in need of repairs for which no one is willing to pay. There was concern that bricks might fall off the building and damage people or property, and so the whole thing was shrinkwrapped.

It's slightly reminiscent of a giant be-condomed penis. Too large to post inline, but see photo. (Which is of the chimney, not of a be-condomed penis.)

 
Spud McLaren
1243698.  Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:27 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
It's slightly reminiscent of a giant be-condomed penis. Too large to post inline, but see photo. (Which is of the chimney, not of a be-condomed penis.)
I dunno, suze. I don't think it's TMI to inform you that mine doesn't have corners.

 
suze
1243700.  Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:47 am Reply with quote

What !? I must have married a mutant!

Before I found that photo I'd only seen the Chimney from ground level, and so I didn't know that the shrinkwrap doesn't cover the tip. I am reliably informed that actual condoms do.

 
Dix
1246564.  Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:33 pm Reply with quote

The cladding fire test results are in. The article also reports on bad advice being given by official bodies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41005748

 
Alfred E Neuman
1246593.  Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:18 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
What !? I must have married a mutant!

Before I found that photo I'd only seen the Chimney from ground level, and so I didn't know that the shrinkwrap doesn't cover the tip. I am reliably informed that actual condoms do.


I think you'll find that, if you roll it down, it'll cover it entirely and not just the tip.

 
'yorz
1246596.  Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:02 pm Reply with quote

:-D

 
suze
1248937.  Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:36 am Reply with quote

In March the government announced that NHS staff would receive a 1% pay raise in line with public sector pay policy.

In July the government announced that teachers would receive a 1% pay raise in line with public sector pay policy.

But then in September the government has announced that police officers and prison officers will get pay raises in excess of 1%, but has not said explicitly that the public sector pay policy has been abandoned.

Surely this is not special treatment for two of the rather few groups within the public sector who tend to vote Conservative. Because if it does turn out to be that, we probably won't have to wait very long for the strike ballots in most of the rest of the public sector.

 

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