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May calls a snap election

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Jenny
1239647.  Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:37 pm Reply with quote

Sad to see an able man feel unable to do a job he's plainly quite good at because of the teachings of some members of the faith to which he belongs.

 
dr.bob
1239671.  Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:07 am Reply with quote

Is he able? Or even quite good at his job? He was largely anonymous through most of the election campaign and, despite increasing the number of MPs for his party (just!), their share of the vote dropped by 0.5% from the apparent nadir of last time.

Not to mention his handling of That Question, which cast a major shadow over his whole election and really should've been dealt with much more quickly to stop it becoming such a ridiculously big story.

 
Spike
1239673.  Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:14 am Reply with quote

Has anyone ever asked Theresa May whether she considers homosexuality a sin? I wonder how the vicar's daughter would respond.
And whilst we're asking, I'm sure there are MP's of a variety of religions who might have some difficulty with the question. Why just pick on Tim Farron - who at least has an exemplary voting record on the subject.

 
PDR
1239674.  Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:24 am Reply with quote

I will admit that it was his "ambiguity" on this issue that prevented me from voting Lib-Dem this year - don't get me wrong, I think he's a nice enough chap and his heart is in the right place, but I don't think this is an issue where there is scope for equivocation.

I have voted Labour at every election since I first gained the vote. My incumbant was Jeremy Hunt (who I would rather see diced and sauteed than elected), and I found that even though he performed rather well in the actual campaign I couldn't in all conscience vote for Jeremy Corbyn because his manifesto was every bit as much an economic fantasy as Boris's 350m/wk. I had previously assumed that if I wasn't able to vote Labour I would vote Lib-Dem, but it was Farrin's vagueness on LGBT matters that prevented me.

So I ended up voting for Louise Irvine (a GP standing on a "Protect the NHS" ticket). I normally disregard single-issue parties and candidates, but I had listened to and spoken to Louise and found her far more grounded and realistic than the usual single-issue zealot. It would seem many others thought the same, because whilst she didn't threaten to unseat Mr Hunt she managed a highly impressive second place with 12,000 votes to Hunt's 33,000.

PDR

 
suze
1239691.  Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:14 am Reply with quote

Spike wrote:
Has anyone ever asked Theresa May whether she considers homosexuality a sin? I wonder how the vicar's daughter would respond.


She has never been asked that question in so many words, but her voting record in this area is decidedly checkered. She voted against the repeal of Section 28 (as did David Cameron), and she voted against lowering the age of consent for male homosexual acts to 16 in line with heterosexual acts. She voted in favour of same sex marriage though, and now says that she has "changed her view" on homosexuality since those earlier votes.

But I suppose the point is that she is a Conservative. Conservatives are "expected" to be nasty, and a proportion of their voters actually want them to be.

Liberal voters are a different breed. Or are they? After all, Simon Hughes found it necessary to conceal that he was bisexual for the first 23 of his 32 years as an MP. When he was first elected in 1983, Mr Hughes did nothing to stop Liberal as well as Tory campaigners using the fact that the Labour candidate Peter Tatchell was gay as a reason not to vote for him.


PDR, did Dr Irvine have Brian May campaigning for her? Dr May is in general a Labour supporter, but I read that he took a different stance in the special circumstances of South West Surrey.

 
Spike
1239699.  Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:20 pm Reply with quote

So she gets a free pass because she's from the 'nasty' party? Even if most Conservative voters don't care, some may, and some undecided voters may also care. I don't see why all politicians shouldn't be held to the same standard, and asked the same questions.

All the parties have reneged on campaign promises at one time or another, but it's the 'nice' Liberals who are beaten over the head most for it, because they are supposed to be better than that! Maybe they need to try being more 'nasty'.

 
barbados
1239705.  Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:01 pm Reply with quote

There wasn't a campaign promise though, there was an inability to answer a simple question.
Personally his opinion on homosexuality is nether here nor there, however he needs to be comfortable enough with his beliefs to face up to them.

 
suze
1239715.  Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:51 pm Reply with quote

Spike wrote:
So she gets a free pass because she's from the 'nasty' party? Even if most Conservative voters don't care, some may, and some undecided voters may also care. I don't see why all politicians shouldn't be held to the same standard, and asked the same questions.


Neither do I, but afaik no one has asked Mrs May the question in so many words yet. While Mrs May is believed to be a practising Christian she doesn't talk about it much. Mr Farron does, just as a lot of American politicians do, which I suppose is why he was asked.


barbados wrote:
Personally his opinion on homosexuality is nether here nor there, however he needs to be comfortable enough with his beliefs to face up to them.


I can't entirely agree there. I sort of want to say "Any politician who is down on homosexuality is not for me", but I'm aware that if I do say that I'm digging myself into a hole because of my stance on abortion.

Personally, I do not hold with abortion. That is partly but not solely because of my Catholic upbringing, but I only seek to apply the stance to myself. I would not choose to have an abortion, but it is not my place to tell other women not to have one; that is none of my business and is up to the women who find themselves in the situation.

If Mr Farron had given a comparable answer as regards homosexuality, would that have been good enough for the Guardian-reading classes?

 
Spike
1239735.  Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:39 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
There wasn't a campaign promise though, there was an inability to answer a simple question.


I was alluding to the Tuition Fees issue that everyone rolls out to bash the Liberals over the head with, whilst ignoring the fact that other parties have failed to follow through on plenty of campaign promises. But that's ok, we don't expect anyone else to actually keep their promises...

 
Spike
1239736.  Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:43 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:

Personally, I do not hold with abortion. That is partly but not solely because of my Catholic upbringing, but I only seek to apply the stance to myself. I would not choose to have an abortion, but it is not my place to tell other women not to have one; that is none of my business and is up to the women who find themselves in the situation.

If Mr Farron had given a comparable answer as regards homosexuality, would that have been good enough for the Guardian-reading classes?


It would be good enough for me, when viewed with his voting record, and I read the Guardian. I also read the Telegraph and the Independant, in order to keep the chips on my shoulder balanced ;-)

 
Pyriform
1239743.  Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:38 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
The room that they're in looks as if it might be the chamber of the House of Commons, although it must have been a photocall rather than an actual sitting because neither Mr Corbyn nor Mr Grant would have been allowed in for a sitting dressed as they are there.

Erskine May requires that gentlemen wear ties. Once in a while a backbench MP suggests that this rule is out of date, but successive Speakers have ruled that they are still required.


It looks as though Jeremy or Robin or whatever his name is might have got away with not wearing a tie sometimes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZsYvkTw4Rg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhEPyjolGQQ&t=43s

Or does PMQ not count as a sitting?

 
barbados
1239752.  Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:07 am Reply with quote

Quote:
I can't entirely agree there. I sort of want to say "Any politician who is down on homosexuality is not for me", but I'm aware that if I do say that I'm digging myself into a hole because of my stance on abortion.


That's right - and it is your opinion. If someone doesn't think something else is, shall we say, appropriate(?) then as long as they don't allow those personal feelings to overlap into their work it isn't an issue. as you suggest Mrs May wasn't too accepting in the past, but she doesn't allow those views to cloud her judgement.

If for example, you were to stand. and since you raise it we will go with the abortion argument, I would not vote for someone else simply based on the answer to the question "do you think abortion is a 'sin'?" I would hope that you position as leader of "the suze party" you would accept that your party felt differently to you and your views are your own, not something you would put on someone else.

 
PDR
1239754.  Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:10 am Reply with quote

By that argument we should vilify anyone who points out that Corbyn won't push the button even though he is the leader of a pro-nuclear party.

PDR

 
barbados
1239755.  Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:35 am Reply with quote

If that is the only basis for their argument then yse, I suppose we should.

Fortunately there are a number of reasons to choose from when it comes to Corbyn's faults. ;)

 
suze
1239762.  Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:28 am Reply with quote

Pyriform wrote:
It looks as though Jeremy or Robin or whatever his name is might have got away with not wearing a tie sometimes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZsYvkTw4Rg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhEPyjolGQQ&t=43s

Or does PMQ not count as a sitting?


Oh, it very much counts as a sitting. The Speaker on both those occasions when Jeremy "Robin" Corbyn was seen without a tie was Bernard "Jack" Weatherill. Perhaps Mr Weatherill didn't think the matter as important as his predecessors and successors - although I'd be surprised if that were the case, since Weatherill was a Savile Row tailor before becoming an MP.

Since then, a handful of MPs have been told off by the Speaker for not wearing a tie, and have had it made plain to them that they would not be called to speak unless they were "properly dressed". The Speaker did not comment when Labour MP Rob Flello appeared without a jacket on a warm day in 2011, although Mr Cameron did. Harriet Harperson got away with wearing a t-shirt on the Labour front bench in 2014, although Dr Caroline Lucas has twice been told to go and change after doing the same.

 

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