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Bird / Crocodile Dentistry

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1222575.  Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:33 pm Reply with quote

Its good to be here. Thanks for the welcome! Took a whike to get it set up but its worth it! :)

1222718.  Tue Jan 24, 2017 4:54 am Reply with quote

BirdDDS wrote:
if you google "birds cleaning teeth" you will see many videos of birds cleaning the teeth, skin, and wounds of many large dangerous animals such as crocodiles, hippos, water buffalos etc.

BirdDDS wrote:
here is video. Note the croc blinking and the uppermost bird, not photoshop.

That's an interesting video. There's something a little odd about it to my eyes, but I can't quite put my finger on what it might be.

I'm interested, though. If there are, as you say, many videos on the subject, would you mind posting another one?

1224378.  Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:18 pm Reply with quote
David Attenborough

1224380.  Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:19 pm Reply with quote

Rhino earwax

1224383.  Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:27 pm Reply with quote

Girraffe teeth

1224384.  Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:29 pm Reply with quote

Domestic bird dentist treats domestic dog teeth

1224536.  Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:37 am Reply with quote

For the benefit of a poor soul who seems to have missed the episode we're talking about, can you remind me precisely what Sandi is alleged to have said?

Or just let me know what episode it was in so I can find out for myself on iPlayer.

1228779.  Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:10 pm Reply with quote

So I looked at the videos you put as evidence of there being birds that clean teeth. Firstly, the fact that there are birds that clean other animal's teeth is not in question: animals like hippos and giraffes do have birds that clean their teeth. What was said on QI was that there never were birds that clean crocodile's teeth, and on that point, your evidence is flawed. The video you linked to is a clip from a commercial for chewing gum (i think, I couldn't find a version with subtitles and I don't recognize the language). The birds and the crocodile are the product of 3D animation. The fact that the ad was made with quite detailed model animals and that the video quality isn't that good makes it all too easy to mistake them for real unless you've seen the steps of animating before. That's why some of the birds movements are repetitive to the pixel, and their movements are staggered and unnatural (as other people pointed out before me) : to save time and money. This is especially noticeable if you observe the movements of the bird that goes into the top jaw carefully ; can you see how its motions are very crisp and it seems to glide further into the mouth? It's artificial-looking.
Here's the link for the full commercial :

PS : Sorry if my spelling is bad, a mix of a french autocorrect and nous one to point out my mistakes for 7 years has made my English a bit rusty around the edges

1228783.  Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:20 pm Reply with quote

Sounds like Japanese to me... Interesting point though - thank you and welcome, K9-Tails.

1228788.  Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:26 pm Reply with quote

As for the 18th and 19th century accounts, they may come from unreliable sources, pranksters or they may simply have seen a bird do that once and assumed, like the Goliath bird-eating Spider also covered on the show, that it does that all the time. It would be the same as observing the behavior of the lioness who, hours after loosing her cub at birth, nursed a young gazelle for almost a week. If that was the first and only Time you saw a lion and a gazelle together, you wouldn't dream that they could be predator and prey, and you would write that lions and gazelles have a symbiotic relationship.
After looking through the first three Google images pages of crocodiles ans birds, I see that :
- most of them have traces of Photoshop and GIMP on them
- others are screenshots of the commercial
- others are blatently cartoons

I haven't yet seen a single one that doesn't bear the hallmarks of a photo that was made rather than taken.

PS : thanks Jenny. It's not japanese though, because I would have been able to read it. The voice over reminds me of chinese or corean speach patterns, but on the packed the writing looks completely alien to me, so I would think it's something like Vietnamese (which I know unfortunately nothing about...)

1228795.  Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:58 pm Reply with quote

Vietnamese is written in the Roman alphabet.

I have nothing to add to the main discussion, but I'm fairly sure that the language of the video is Thai.

1229399.  Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:03 pm Reply with quote

All critics points well taken, but it seemed in the XL version of this eposide that the elves were debunking the entire notion of avian cleaning symbioses or other examples of birds fussing about intimately with large dangerous animals at the water hole, whether hippos, rhinos, water buffaloes or crocs.

The main reason for my interpretation is that the tradtional "but this related thing is true" bit at the end of the debunking was that fish cleaning does occur, seeming to imply that birds cleaning dangerous animals was being debunked, not just crocs, that bird cleaning behaviors are apocryphal but fish cleaning is the closest thing to that which is verified and real.

I think those who did the web search will agree birds do clean and or pick at many large dangerous animals at the watering hole.

What bothers me is I cant seem to find the seseme street musical montage of birds picking at various dangerous animals I recall from childhood with music by Joe Raposo.

Anyone else recall this? Any ideas where I might find it?

1229403.  Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:24 pm Reply with quote

One small additional point, when looking for example clips i saw the dentyne advertisment and another example of a fake video for a commercial. In addition I found many obviously photoshopped fake images, some realistic, some not.

As far as i can tell, none of the links i posted are advertisements or obvious fakes, though the top google results include many fakes that look similar.
If someone has a longer clip that includes the same footage as i posted but as part of a commercial ad, please post, thanks!

1229472.  Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:06 am Reply with quote

BirdDDS wrote:
it seemed in the XL version of this eposide that the elves were debunking the entire notion of avian cleaning symbioses

That's why I asked above precisely what was said on the episode (since I seem to have missed this one).

Based on past experience, there are a few scenarios that could've played out here.

One possibility is that you simply mistook what was being said. I'm not trying to insult you, but I have seen it before when someone has complained about an episode, only to discover that their memory of what was said does not correspond 100% to what was actually said. Human memory is notoriously fickle, so I can't rule out this possibility.

Another option is that Sandi read something out from the script, which was completely correct, but the banter between the panellists said something different. In QI, lots of claims are made. It's worth remembering that only the chair's script is fact checked. If a panellist comes out with something on the spur of the moment, that may or may not be 100% true.

A final scenario is that the script was carefully written to say something particular, but that the message was slightly garbled when read out. Usually the production team try to filter out this kind of mistake in the edit, but there have been occasions when something has slipped through.

In order to decide what really happened here, it would be good to know what exactly was claimed.

1229785.  Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:36 pm Reply with quote

The first video you gave as evidence of the birds cleaning crocodile teeth are the first 13 seconds of the commercial I linked to on one of my previous posts, BirdDDS, only a simple phrase has been inserted at the bottom (easily done in apps like iMovie for example).
If I recall correctly, Sandi only said that the case of crocodiles and birds was inexistant, however the cases of hippos and others had been obseved but was extremely rare, that's when they cut to the commonplace symbiosis of the fish/hippos.
I also looked for examples, but the only page I could find supporting the existance of the crocodile / bird connexion was wikipedia, and even then, depending on the language that I read the article in, the information wasn't 100% certain (even if I hadn't taken into account the fact that wikipedia isn't exactly gospel concerning different subjects. As a fan of Vocaloid, I find it irritating that Teto was counted as a Vocaloid when she is clearly an Utau). All other websites stated that there were no documented sightings, or that if that behavior does exist, it has to be vanishingly rare to not have been caught on camera once un the past 70 years.


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