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So silenced guns dont go pfft

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Tom Martin Ball
1216963.  Sat Dec 17, 2016 5:08 pm Reply with quote

Elves got it wrong again. silenced guns can go Pfft! Try googling the excellent De Lisle carbine (amougst many others). even some footage of them being fired on you tube and they definatly go pfft! A gun can be silenced if it has a gas seal and like the De Lisle fires a sub sonic bullet. In the case of the De Lisle it is the 45 acp round. check your facts elves!

 
crissdee
1216968.  Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:37 pm Reply with quote

Hi Tom, we are discussing this very point on the "Green Room" thread. Feel free to weigh in with your opinion. The De Lisle carbine, and its sister weapon the Welrod pistol, were certainly effectively silent. I have heard it said that the only noise from a Welrod was the sound of the firing pin hitting the primer. I also understood that the De Lisle had a velvet-lined compartment into which the empty cases dropped after firing.






Why yes!, I am a gun nut!!!!

 
Awitt
1216970.  Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:55 pm Reply with quote

Youlgreaved that as the hard thing on Australian trees.....

 
Gary4523
1244545.  Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:40 pm Reply with quote

As we are on supressors and getting things wrong, videogames often get supresors wrong. Supressors on guns increase imapct and overall penetration due to the exstention of the barrel which allows for the force of the exploding gun powder to be dircted in one direction for longer. Videogames often have supressors as reducing 'damage', there is a cool youtube video on supressors i can link in if any is interested

 
crissdee
1244548.  Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:52 pm Reply with quote

Sorry, that's one area the gamers got right. Silencers/suppressors are basically an expansion chamber for the propellant gases. If they made the bullet go faster they would actually be making the problem they are there to solve, worse instead of better.

 
Gary4523
1244553.  Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:35 pm Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWK2jHG5XfE
According to this man the game is wrong. Can i ask for your source please? i relse that sounds like i am being a bit of a ass about it but i am actually wanting more information as this video is just some man and i have no idea how reputable he is. If i can read/watch or listen to your information then i can at least reform my opinion with greater accuracy

 
crissdee
1244567.  Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:49 pm Reply with quote

My source, I'm afraid, is a lifetime of reading about, and using guns, and a similar period as an engineer and just knowing how the things work.

To be "silenced" to any degree, the bullet has to be travelling at subsonic speed. If a silencer/suppressor raised the energy of a bullet, it could only do it in your scenario by increasing the speed. If you increase the speed, there is a risk of it becoming supersonic, making the silencer useless. If I had access to my extensive collection of firearm-related books, I could overwhelm you with written sources on the matter. As I don't (for reasons not germane to the discussion) I suggest Wiki'ing either term for confirmation of the basic principles.

Just had a quick scan through that youtube link, the man is just plain wrong!

 
Gary4523
1244580.  Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:39 pm Reply with quote

Ok cool, do you remember the name of one of the books? if not no worries.
I don't know much about guns nor bullets as you can tell as i believed the gentleman in the video. But i thought that most bullets from travelled greater than the speed of sound? the speed of sound being 11250 feet per second and the average bullet travelling 2500 foot a second according to mythbusters.

http://www.mythbusterstheexhibition.com/science-content/dodge-a-bullet/
this is just the myth busters dodging bullet myth but it has what they say the speed of the average bullet is

 
crissdee
1244603.  Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:35 am Reply with quote

Pistol bullets can run as low as 500fps, fastest rifle bullet I can think of off-hand runs about 4,000fps. Basically, think of a speed and there's probably a factory load that gets within 20fps of it! Once you add in experimental loads, home loads (what's known as "wildcats"), then anything up to 6,000fps could be possible.

 
PDR
1244607.  Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:04 am Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:

Just had a quick scan through that youtube link, the man is just plain wrong!


To be fair, if you listen very carefully to the chap in the youtube link he's actually only claiming the additional 10-15mm of barrel length ofr the threaded spigot on the end of the barrel that the suppressor screws onto. If this is indeed the same diameter as the bore then there could be a small increase in muzzle velocity, but it would only be noticeable on short barrels and probably only even then when the suppressor wasn't fitted. The bore inside the suppressor will be larger than the barrel and the gas pressure (as you say) mostly lost to the baffle system. But also the round passing through it would experience all sorts of pressure/shock cycles as it passed the baffles and vents, and it's hard to see how it wouldn't lose energy as it does so.

His point about the increased mass has a little merit, but not much because suppressors are very light and often spring-decoupled. But he overlooks their effect on the balance of a pistol. The higher-quality pistols are carefully designed to have a specific inertial characteristic with the top of the palm as a fulcrum. Adding a suppressor moves the centre of mass forwards, changing both the radius of gyration and the moment of inertial, so the effects on the recoil are hard to predict. Where the suppressor is sprung this becomes even worse because it add a phase-shift to the momentum transfer which can actually see in operation in one of his range firing videos.

PDR

 
crissdee
1244620.  Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:25 am Reply with quote

I was hoping you'd chip in with a little more technical knowledge mate!

 

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