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Non-Christian Christmas Special

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bobwilson
888982.  Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:47 pm Reply with quote

The simple answer is that God never asked us to celebrate anything (he's a myth) and the Christmas bit is sticking a non-Christian festival onto Christianity.

If you want to celebrate Passover - go Jewish.

Hope that helps.

 
Posital
889003.  Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:22 am Reply with quote

Passover, where it's celebrated that the israelites didn't tell their neighbours about a way to avoid having their first-born killed.

Did they cause (by inaction) all those non-israeli children to be slaughtered?

Isn't that "accessory" to the crime? I see no remorse.

The dead children don't seem to get much press - is it a cover-up? How many did the israelites kill to escape slavery?

The people need to know.

 
Zebra57
889007.  Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:24 am Reply with quote

Welcome shiroanubis: your quotes are from the Old Testement and concern as BW correctly points out Jewish tradetion.

The issue of Christmas would not have arisen until post New Testement times. Do not forget that for a number of years the yet to be formed Christian faith would have been considered a Jewish sect.

 
CB27
889214.  Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:53 pm Reply with quote

There have been a couple of lengthy debates for Christmas, but to cut a long story short, the idea of celebrating the birth of Jesus did not appear until a couple of centuries after his death, and even then it took some time for some agreement on the date (there are still different dates used today).

Christmas, like most Christian holidays introduced after the NT was written, is based on the Julian/Gregorian calendar and the date is static. However, there are some observed events, like Easter, which are based on details given in the NT, and these will have used the old Jewish calendar in the old days, but in order to separate themselves from Judaism, are now calculated on a lunar calendar calculation based on Julian/Gregorian dates. As a result, Easter is usually linked to Passover, with a few singular exceptions which come round every few years.

 
dmottram
892239.  Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:00 pm Reply with quote

CB27 wrote:
but in order to separate themselves from Judaism, are now calculated on a lunar calendar calculation based on Julian/Gregorian dates. As a result, Easter is usually linked to Passover, with a few singular exceptions which come round every few years.
The main reason the Christian church decided to use a formula rather than having people follow their Jewish neighbours is that, after the destruction of the temple, their Jewish neighbours did not have an authority to decide their calendar, in particular when to add an extra month to keep things roughly in synch with the sun. Jews in different parts of the diaspora ended up celebrating Passover on different dates. They did eventually adopt their own formula which is, of course, different from the Christian one.

 
CB27
892274.  Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:28 am Reply with quote

Not sure where this "lack of authority" from the destruction of the temple comes from, the arguments about different Passover dates from the ancient tradition that Passover started after Spring, based on a number of observations, and since this could happen at different times in different areas, this allowed for the addition of an extra month sometimes, which was perfectly acceptable in ancient times, well before the destruction of the temple.

It's only when travel and communications improved that a universal set date based on mathematical calculations was implemented - as seems the case for many cultures and religions at the time.

The removal of relying on Jewish dates was not introduced until a Council in the 4th century AD, and based on the words of Constantine, it seems the removal of Jewish calculation wasn't all to do with being accurate:

Quote:
"And in the first place, it seemed very unworthy for us to keep this most sacred feast following the custom of the Jews, a people who have soiled their hands in a most terrible outrage, and have thus polluted their souls, and are now deservedly blind"

A century after the pronouncement of the Council, it seems there were still many people using Jewish computations for celebrating Easter because there are a number of sermons and canons attacking rotopaschites.

Even as late as the 12th century, people like Ioannes Zonaras were discussing the relationship between the dates of Easter and Passover.

As an aside, while in English we recognise it as Easter, and it is similar in some Germanic languages, when it comes to the original Greeks, Latins and other languages used by early Chritians, it's usually a form of "Pascha" or "Paschal", which is derived from "Pesach", the Hebrew word for Passover.

 

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