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The answer to protests against police brutality is...

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cornixt
1349533.  Sun May 31, 2020 7:41 pm Reply with quote

...more police brutality I guess.

Third straight night of riots in Seattle, although I haven't seen any video examples of the police being too heavy-handed here like I have for other cities. I was hoping that there might be announcements of third-party investigations into accusations of police abusing their power, better whistle-blower protections for good cops reporting on the bad ones. So far the only response has been containing the protests and in many cases stirring up riots.

I'm not anti-police, but the stuff some of them have done and got away with is crazy. It's no wonder that some get so brave as to murder contained suspects. Until something is done to weed out the bad ones, or at least make them less liable to give in to their baser instincts, we are going to have repeats of these protests over and over.

 
Awitt
1349536.  Sun May 31, 2020 11:04 pm Reply with quote

In Australia in the '70's and '80's there seemed to be a group of senior police/detectives who were either bent or on the criminal's side. And some of it was known at the time, but a blind eye was turned. I remember an inner city/suburban station having renovations and a hidden drug stash was found in the ceiling. Hidden there by the detectives and the crooks walked free because of 'lack of evidence'.

 
barbados
1349537.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:11 am Reply with quote

Which end of the force is the issue though. The problem is really down to a minority (Iíd suggest that the majority of police officers are good, as are the majority of the public) but they are significant in their actions, as you can see it doesnít take much (as in large number rather than the significance of the action) to tip the scales.

What the answer is? Who knows? Maybe itís time to recognise the differences then move on together - because trying to get the moral upper-hand certainly isnít working is it.

 
Alexander Howard
1349540.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:52 am Reply with quote

There was another video on the Beeb of an arrest of a young man in America, where the accused was surrounded by several armed police with drawn guns in his own front lawn, resulting in a loud stand-off with his family, including his feisty grandmother.

His alleged crime? Running a red light, on an empty road, then failing to stop when ordered. Truly America is a sick land if there is such tension, on the brink of gunshots at any moment.

 
crissdee
1349546.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:30 am Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
His alleged crime? Running a red light, on an empty road, then failing to stop when ordered. Truly America is a sick land if there is such tension, on the brink of gunshots at any moment.


While not necessarily defending the police action, the bit I have emboldened is the crucial factor. They had someone intent on evading the police in a country where there are more guns than people. They did not know why he was evading them, but they were surely obliged to investigate.

 
cnb
1349547.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:57 am Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:
[They had someone intent on evading the police

There's a difference between evading the police, and driving to a place where there are witnesses so that it's less likely that the police will murder you.

 
barbados
1349555.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:32 am Reply with quote

The trouble with that approach is how does the police officer know you are simply driving to a safe place and not evading them?

 
cnb
1349562.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:17 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
The trouble with that approach is how does the police officer know you are simply driving to a safe place and not evading them?

Here in the UK if you drove normally the police would simply follow you. Only if you took clearly evasive action, or were endangering others, would they attempt to stop you by force.

 
barbados
1349567.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:47 am Reply with quote

Here in the U.K. you are extremely unlikely to be pursued by a policeman carrying a gun

 
cnb
1349571.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:01 am Reply with quote

barbados wrote:
Here in the U.K. you are extremely unlikely to be pursued by a policeman carrying a gun

How is that relevant to the question you posed? Does having a gun affect the officer's ability to assess whether someone's driving is evasive or dangerous?

 
barbados
1349575.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:26 am Reply with quote

If the officer is carrying a gun and you know he is, then while he is pursuing you are likely to drive slightly more eratically. How does the police officer, that you are scared of, know if you are trying to evade him when you don't know if, when you are finally stopped, he is going to shoot you?

The interacton is a two way street, and comparing what happens in the US to what happens in the UK is like comparing apples and staircases. The police officer has to be confident that you are not trying to escape him, in the same way you need to be sure he isn't going to shoot you. And if you are sure he isn't going to shoot you, why do you need to drive to somewhere else?
There are so many variables, the response "well in the UK you can do this" doesn't answer the question "what would happen in the US?"

 
cornixt
1349583.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:48 am Reply with quote

A lot of US roads do not have a safe place to pull over into for a few miles, so not pulling over immediately would be fairly common. I've only been pulled over twice, but I didn't have to go far to stop.

I don't think that getting shot is the number one thing on the mind - even black people are more afraid of being hassled or setup than shot, although it is a distinct possibility. I expect most people are going to be freaked out by it regardless, I know my adrenaline was flowing even for a simple speeding ticket.

 
crissdee
1349589.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:07 pm Reply with quote

If the police (in any country) tell you to pull over, you pull over. If they tell you to do so, they consider it safe. If you actively avoid pulling over then, as barb said (and as my original post tried to imply) they don't know why you aren't complying and will assume the worst, purely out of common sense.

 
PDR
1349596.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:15 pm Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:
If the police (in any country) tell you to pull over, you pull over. If they tell you to do so, they consider it safe. If you actively avoid pulling over then, as barb said (and as my original post tried to imply) they don't know why you aren't complying and will assume the worst, purely out of common sense.


There are many places in many countries where I wouldn't advise it. There are even places in backwoods USA where stopping for a random police car is a very unsafe thing to do if you are any permutation of young, female or black. There are places in Czech Republic where my company's official security brief says "if a lone policeman or a single car tries to stop you head at the highest safe speed for a town where you can hand yourself in at a police station, then call the consulate. If there are two of you in the car and you have a working phone then call the consulate before you get there" (there are lots of army deserters who prey on foreigners). And don't get me started on Egypt, KSA etc.

PDR

 
Jenny
1349597.  Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:20 pm Reply with quote

According to Trump, the governors of various states aren't being nearly brutal enough with protesters.

 

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