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Brexit (the EU Referendum debate)

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tetsabb
1390663.  Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:54 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:


It's called American Exceptionalism. It is a theme in American politics that the US has the right to demand things of other countries that it would not be willing to grant unto them, because it's special. Anyone who critiicises this idea is probably a communist. No President could ever disown this idea in public, because a lot of Americans actually believe it and to disown the idea would lose an election.


Is this related to Manifest Destiny?

 
suze
1390673.  Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:21 pm Reply with quote

Manifest Destiny was a related concept, certainly. That term fell out of use around the time of WWI, and Woodrow Wilson was the last President to use it in his speeches.

Manifest Destiny was largely about expanding US territory. Anyone that the US chose to colonise would obviously let that happen, because the US is obviously better than them, that sort of thing. Yes, that is uncomfortably similar to Lebensraum and so the concept seems unlikely to be revived in that form.

It was largely a Democrat thing. Abraham Lincoln - a Republican - thought it was a silly idea and said so on numerous occasions. At this point we have to remember that the Democrats and the Republicans practically swapped platforms in the early C20.

The term American Exceptionalism was used in European political writing from about 1840, but Americans didn't use it of themselves - and think it a good thing too - until the 1930s, by which time Woodrow Wilson and Manifest Destiny were dead.

 
tetsabb
1390861.  Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:26 pm Reply with quote

I have asked this question a few times since June 2016 and am still hoping for an answer.
In what simple, tangible ways are our lives going to be better with Brexit?
'Cos, at the moment, I am seeing nuffink.

 
Brock
1390865.  Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:11 pm Reply with quote

tetsabb wrote:
I have asked this question a few times since June 2016 and am still hoping for an answer.
In what simple, tangible ways are our lives going to be better with Brexit?
'Cos, at the moment, I am seeing nuffink.


When you asked that question in February (post 1374151), I did suggest that the success of the UK's vaccine rollout compared with the EU's might be seen as at least partly attributable to Brexit. However, since then, the EU's vaccine rollout has caught up with the UK's, and some countries have overtaken us.

So I'm afraid I can see no advantages to Brexit at all now - it's all downsides. Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian today explains how Brexit, while not the sole cause of many of the current "supply chain issues", has made them a lot worse than in the rest of Europe:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/24/food-petrol-shortages-brexit-goods-johnson-botched-deal

I learned one particularly interesting thing from that article - that Northern Ireland hasn't been affected by the CO2 shortage, because it's still inside the EU's single market and can source supplies from continental Europe. I'd like to see the Government explain its way out of that one!

I ought to add one other thing: it's specifically the Government's decision to go for a "hard" Brexit, outside the single market and customs union, that's led to all these problems. Had we gone for Theresa May's deal (or something like it), I don't believe we'd be seeing anything like this level of disruption.

 
suze
1390877.  Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:31 pm Reply with quote

But the passports are blue, and that's all that matters!


(Even though it was Margaret Thatcher and not a diktat from the EU which turned them red. Just another lie that lots of idiots chose to believe ...)

 
barbados
1390891.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:03 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
But the passports are blue, and that's all that matters!


(Even though it was Margaret Thatcher and not a diktat from the EU which turned them red. Just another lie that lots of idiots chose to believe ...)

You do have to wonder why the colour of the cover of a document is so important to remoaners like yourself.

 
PDR
1390893.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:12 am Reply with quote

The colour of passports is not important to "remainers" - it was the Brexit Mendocracy who made this issue and brought in this change as you know full well. It is the unending unmitigated stream of lies that flow from the Brexiteers, and the abject failure to deliver on any of the promised they made to extort votes from the gullible that is important to us.

But congratulations for so quickly attempting to deflect in your trademark style with yet another blatant lie.

PDR

 
barbados
1390894.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:17 am Reply with quote

I don’t think it is important to the majority of people the voted remain, it also wasn’t important to the majority of people that voted to leave.
The only people it does seem important to are people with similar opinions to suze, hence the question.

 
tetsabb
1390895.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:23 am Reply with quote

It did seem from posts I saw on FB and elsewhere that changing the colour of the passport cover was a big deal for a lot of leavers-- symbolic if Britsin's new independence and sticking it to the EU Man.

 
barbados
1390898.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 5:33 am Reply with quote

Well here, and other areas of social media I visit, the importance has only ever been expressed by those with a similar viewpoint to suze, and when those that did vote to leave ask why, the despotism either to ignore the question, or to respond in a similar way to PDR

 
Efros
1390900.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:27 am Reply with quote

despotism??

 
barbados
1390909.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:46 am Reply with quote

Efros wrote:
despotism??

Would you believe me if I said that was an autocorrect from “response is”, iOS autocorrect is being a bit of a dick lately.

 
PDR
1390926.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:52 am Reply with quote

It's the classic boris response - just keep repeating the lie. The bigger and more brazen the better.

Or are you suggesting that your use of the phrase "important to remoaners like yourself" was intended to mean "important to that small proportion of remoaners who are similar to Suze" rather than "important to remoaners, which you are one of"?

So you are trying to suggest it wasn't a lie, just a direct personal attack on another forum member?

The irony is that in introducing this change the Brexit Mendocracy paid a French company to design the new passport and a Polish company to manufacture them, destroying 170 jobs in the British company that previously held the contract. But then Brexit always was and always will be about ever bigger lies being defended big ever more habitual liars.

PDR

 
tetsabb
1390929.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:25 am Reply with quote

The temptation to edit that is almost overwhelming

barbados wrote:
, iOS autocorrect is being a bit of a dick lately.


Quote:
i is being...


But that would be mean and childish.
😉

 
barbados
1390930.  Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:53 am Reply with quote

tetsabb wrote:
The temptation to edit that is almost overwhelming

barbados wrote:
, iOS autocorrect is being a bit of a dick lately.


Quote:
i is being...


But that would be mean and childish.
😉

Yes it would.
A grown up would write I am, not i is 😉

 

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