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Brexit (the EU Referendum debate)

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Bondee
1178864.  Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:47 pm Reply with quote

Recommendations and regards have been passed on to Mr McH.

In the meantime, he suggested fullfact.org. I've had a quick look and a substantial part of the site is dedicated to Europe and the EU deal. I'll have to wait until such a time as I'm sufficiently awake to take it all in.

 
'yorz
1178878.  Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:02 pm Reply with quote

Thanks for that link, Bondee. I am not entirely sure that the 'facts' we will undoubtedly get crammed down our throats between now and referendum-time will be totally unbiased.

 
dr.bob
1178924.  Wed Feb 24, 2016 5:05 am Reply with quote

fullfact.org is an excellent unbiased site which examines figures quoted by politicians and others in the media. I've read many reports on their website and they don't try and draw any conclusions or push any agendas. They just check to see how accurate the figures are.

(the site if often referenced by the Radio4 show More or Less, which is another excellent way of examining figures and stats in public life.)

For instance, this article nicely examines the facts and figures behind the claim made, last year, that "70 per cent of UK's laws are now made in Brussels"

 
suze
1179056.  Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:57 pm Reply with quote

The Grassroots Out campaign (a front for UKIP) has put out a song called Britain's Coming Home, which is sung to a possibly recognizable tune. You'll never guess what, but Nige is in their video.

David Baddiel finds it rather amusing, according to a piece he has written for The Guardian.

 
Efros
1179063.  Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:13 pm Reply with quote

So Gove, Johnson, Farage, Galloway, Carswell, Hannan, Jenkin amongst others all trying to get a leave vote. Hmmm, not convinced by that shower.

 
Jenny
1179067.  Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:20 pm Reply with quote

Yes I have to say I *almost* don't have to look at the arguments when I consider that source.

 
dr.bob
1179148.  Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:27 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
David Baddiel finds it rather amusing, according to a piece he has written for The Guardian.


Best line of that piece:

David Baddiel wrote:
the truth about Brexit v Bremain is that most people, myself included, know Bruckallaboutit (for a long time I thought that both Brexit and Bremain were oat-based, keep-you-regular breakfast cereals).

 
ali
1179201.  Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:43 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
The Grassroots Out campaign (a front for UKIP) has put out a song called Britain's Coming Home, which is sung to a possibly recognizable tune. You'll never guess what, but Nige is in their video.

David Baddiel finds it rather amusing, according to a piece he has written for The Guardian.


I hope they do a version of Kernkraft 400 :)

Or maybe 1320?

 
barbados
1179221.  Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:29 am Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:

Best line of that piece:

David Baddiel wrote:
the truth about Brexit v Bremain is that most people, myself included, know Bruckallaboutit (for a long time I thought that both Brexit and Bremain were oat-based, keep-you-regular breakfast cereals).


That is actually where a lot of people are struggling. All we get is scaremongering from both sides, when what we need is a list saying this is how much we pay, and this is what we get for our money (we don't for an example get jobs - they are a by product of the trade agreements that are in place)

 
crissdee
1179261.  Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:41 am Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:
AlmondFacialBar wrote:
......London will vote In, that's for sure.....


FYI, I'm in London and I'm currently in the "Out, and run like a bastard in the opposite direction" camp. But then I know as much of big business as I do of politics so my opinion may not be generally shared.


In the business pages of "The Standard" today, some bod of a business persuasion (Peter Hargreaves) is quoted as saying;

"Hopefully voters will decide to leave this disastrous and stifling union."

Pretty unequivocal I thought.

 
Efros
1179265.  Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:54 am Reply with quote

If I was a billionaire I'd hope I was pretty insulated from any political decision, I think the impact on Joe Bloggs of Brexit is going to be lot more serious than anything Mr. Hargreaves might experience.

 
dr.bob
1179417.  Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:26 am Reply with quote

There's an interesting and pretty well balanced article from the FT here about possible scenarios should we decide to leave the EU.

I'd recommend you read the whole article, as it's interesting. However, if you haven't got time, I'll just reproduce the overall verdict that they arrive at:

FT wrote:
With clear and easily specified economic risks in the short and medium- term, Brexit does not easily pass any cost-benefit analysis. But supporters of the EU should be wary of making overconfident claims, since trade is only one driver of growth and prosperity.

 
Spud McLaren
1179473.  Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:26 pm Reply with quote

crissdee wrote:
... I'm currently in the "Out, and run like a bastard in the opposite direction" camp. But then I know as much of big business as I do of politics so my opinion may not be generally shared.
Speaking as one whose views are by no means unequivocal on the subject, I ask in true curiosity, criss, what you based your decision on if (by your own admission) you know little of either politics or business?

 
crissdee
1179485.  Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:10 pm Reply with quote

It just seems to me (from my apolitical and unbusinesslike viewpoint) that our joining "The Common Market" all those years ago, has now grown into something so utterly unlike what we signed up for, with regulations and restrictions imposed on us from "Brussels" and little or no tangible benefit gained by ordinary people, that the time has come for us to take a long hard look at what we are involved in and ask if it is really in our interests to stay. If someone could point me towards some actual benefit we have gained from our membership, I might change my mind, but my (possibly ill-informed) opinion is that it is all just expense and complication in our lives that we are better off without. As people have said recently, if we could have some actual hard facts and figures presented to us from both/either side(s) we could all offer a more considered opinion. If the referendum achieves nothing else, it might at least achieve that. The little I have seen so far has been nebulous platitudes from the "In" camp and jingoistic rhetoric from the "Out" camp, but the rhetoric is winning me over in the absence of facts.

 
barbados
1179495.  Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:34 am Reply with quote

The trouble is criss, that is all both sides have got in a post out victory. The outies can claim it will be the best thing since the best thing before sliced bread, and the innies can claim it will be the end of the world. No one actually knows.
What is needed is a big list with the amount we pay in, and what we actually get for that money. Then you can put forward a case forit being worth staying in, or coming out. Based on what we would lose (brussells interference) against what we would gain (57 Gazillion) and what we would need to renegotiate (trade deals). Only then we can make a proper informed decision.

 

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