View previous topic | View next topic

The Interminably Long Race To '20, Election or Impeachment

Page 231 of 236
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 230, 231, 232 ... 234, 235, 236  Next


Who will win?
Jeb!
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Hillary
20%
 20%  [ 5 ]
Trump
16%
 16%  [ 4 ]
Sanders
20%
 20%  [ 5 ]
Chafee
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Webb
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Cruz
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Huckabee
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
Who Cares!
36%
 36%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 25

crissdee
1347423.  Tue May 05, 2020 4:53 am Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
suze wrote:
Mr Howard, I really don't want to shout obscenities at you from a great height.

But please explain the definition of "free world" which you used in the last paragraph of the post above. It's going to have to be good ...


Surely a touchstone of a free country is not having to justify myself to anyone.


Quite so, but there is a similar "touchstone" of debate, where reasons/sources are quoted without fear of reprisal, a system which I like to think is in operation on these boards. If you don't think Canada is part of the "free world", then I will be on the barricades defending your right to do so, but a little explanation would be nice.

 
suze
1347433.  Tue May 05, 2020 9:01 am Reply with quote

I do know what Mr Howard refers to here, but it's not even a half truth. A tenth truth, maybe.

He refers to a change which was made to the Canadian Human Rights Act in 2017 which makes it an offence to discriminate on the grounds of "gender identity or expression". It was already an offence to discriminate on various other grounds which will have occurred to the reader.

The reader will be aware of a number of right wing self-publicists who object to "political correctness gone mad" at every conceivable opportunity. In Canada there is an individual named Jordan Petersen who falls into that category. Dr Petersen was at the time a professor at the University of Toronto, and he asserted that under the new law, he could find himself before the courts if he referred to a student who was a woman who used to be a man as "him".

Canadian media went and asked lawyers whether Dr Petersen was correct here, and they all said the same thing: in theory it was just about possible, but it was most unlikely ever to happen. And indeed, in the three years since the law change, it hasn't happened.

So Mr Howard may console herself with the thought that it may use whatever pronouns they damn well please. And after reading that last sentence, he may feel that it's pretty damn rude not to use an individual's preferred pronoun, whether or not it's ever going to land you in court.


Dr Petersen has another slightly eccentric position which has come to popular attention, and this one concerns God, existence or otherwise of. His stance on that matter is that he hopes that God does not exist, but fears that He does.

 
suze
1347440.  Tue May 05, 2020 11:43 am Reply with quote

Meanwhile getting back to the orange fellow in DC, he claims that he will be publishing "evidence" that the pesky virus originated in a laboratory in China rather than in wild animals.

Most of what President Trump says and does concerns me, but this downright scares me. Is he actually trying to start a war as an economic stimulus measure? FWIW, that works in terms of Keynesian economics, but that doesn't make it a sensible way to proceed.

 
Efros
1347441.  Tue May 05, 2020 12:31 pm Reply with quote

That shitbag that's his chief adviser, Stephen Miller, is more than probably the one responsible for this. I smell his xenophobic hands all over this claptrap.

 
PDR
1347444.  Tue May 05, 2020 1:15 pm Reply with quote

Efros wrote:
That shitbag that's his chief adviser, Stephen Miller, is more than probably the one responsible for this. I smell his xenophobic hands all over this claptrap.


The parallels to the last season of Homeland are quite spooky...

PDR

 
cornixt
1347445.  Tue May 05, 2020 1:21 pm Reply with quote

It's part of his strategy to say "it's not my fault for creating a precarious economy and destroying pandemic preparedness, it's China making war against us". He's also saying that Biden won't punish China, so don't elect him.

 
Willie
1347446.  Tue May 05, 2020 1:23 pm Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
suze wrote:
Mr Howard, I really don't want to shout obscenities at you from a great height.

But please explain the definition of "free world" which you used in the last paragraph of the post above. It's going to have to be good ...


Surely a touchstone of a free country is not having to justify myself to anyone.


No, a touchstone of a free country is that you are perfectly entitled to have an opinion, but everybody else is just as entitled to either ridicule or question your opinion.

What is it with the modern right that bang on about their 'rights' being taken away but always seem to think that their 'rights' are somehow more real or important than everybody else's?

As to 'national, socialist' no, Hitler ran a party with the words National Socialist in it's name in the same way that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea has democratic in its name and the Conservative and Unionist party have conservative in it's name. Neither really follow the lower case meaning of the respective word in their titles.

 
Alexander Howard
1347463.  Tue May 05, 2020 6:12 pm Reply with quote

Willie wrote:
No, a touchstone of a free country is that you are perfectly entitled to have an opinion, but everybody else is just as entitled to either ridicule or question your opinion.


Well, there's that too.

I would not want to assert absolutely a definitive boundary of a political philosophy by the name its adopters choose, or the ex post facto definitions that others adopt for it to distance themselves from other forms. It is rare for a political system to be simply defined, and you go by results. I have observed that you can measure how seriously a country takes the free-market economy by counting the number of once-luxury items that are now found in the households even of the poorest, and you can measure how seriously a country takes socialism by counting the number of bodies.

 
suze
1347465.  Tue May 05, 2020 6:57 pm Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
I have observed that you can measure how seriously a country takes the free-market economy by counting the number of once-luxury items that are now found in the households even of the poorest, and you can measure how seriously a country takes socialism by counting the number of bodies.


I don't know if you'd noticed, but we do not currently live in a free country. We're being told where we can and cannot go, with whom we may and may not associate, and all sorts of other things which would normally be considered utterly unacceptable.

You personally may oppose those measures for all I know, but it was your preferred political party - led by a fellow called Alexander, much as he prefers to use a bizarre middle name - which imposed them.

Only two countries in Europe have chosen not to impose such measures. One of those is Belarus, which is a quasi-Communist dictatorship at the best of times. Worse yet, it is run by a fellow called Alexander.

The other is Sweden, which is thus the only country in Europe currently to have a free market economy. And yet, the land of Abba and Volvo takes socialism really quite seriously, and has never allowed itself to be ruled by an Alexander.

Will no one rid me of these turbulent Alexanders? From where I'm sitting, they're a lot more worrying than the Justins.

 
barbados
1347466.  Tue May 05, 2020 7:16 pm Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Alexander Howard wrote:
I have observed that you can measure how seriously a country takes the free-market economy by counting the number of once-luxury items that are now found in the households even of the poorest, and you can measure how seriously a country takes socialism by counting the number of bodies.


I don't know if you'd noticed, but we do not currently live in a free country. We're being told where we can and cannot go, with whom we may and may not associate, and all sorts of other things which would normally be considered utterly unacceptable.

You personally may oppose those measures for all I know, but it was your preferred political party - led by a fellow called Alexander, much as he prefers to use a bizarre middle name - which imposed them.

Only two countries in Europe have chosen not to impose such measures. One of those is Belarus, which is a quasi-Communist dictatorship at the best of times. Worse yet, it is run by a fellow called Alexander.

The other is Sweden, which is thus the only country in Europe currently to have a free market economy. And yet, the land of Abba and Volvo takes socialism really quite seriously, and has never allowed itself to be ruled by an Alexander.

Will no one rid me of these turbulent Alexanders? From where I'm sitting, they're a lot more worrying than the Justins.

I think you may be a victim of your own definition there suze.
Perhaps you could tell us which country that is free would elect a leader named Justin?

 
suze
1347488.  Wed May 06, 2020 7:21 am Reply with quote

Hmm, you may have a point there, but Mr Howard still can't have it both ways.

If we look at "currently free" countries in the sense of that post, every single one in the Western world is led by a Stefan. By a margin of four to one, there are more "not currently free" countries led by Alexanders than by Justins.

If we look at "usually free" countries, well I've already explained why I don't buy Mr Howard's argument for Canada not being one. He can point to an eccentric right wing oddjob's prediction of a thing that has never actually happened all he likes. But if he does it, then I can point back at the country where shouting the word "nonsense" at the Home Secretary is apparently an act of terrorism - and that actually happened.

But the bottom line is that Mr Howard touched the wrong nerve at the wrong time. In common, I expect, with rather a lot of people my bullshit tolerance levels are rather low at the present time, and nemo me impune lacessit. Accordingly, I invite the Honourable Member to withdraw his comment about Canada.

 
PDR
1347490.  Wed May 06, 2020 7:59 am Reply with quote

suze wrote:
Accordingly, I invite the Honourable Member to withdraw his comment about Canada.


Otherwise I volunteer my services as your Seconde for the dawn appointment - coffee and pistols for two...

PDR

 
suze
1347497.  Wed May 06, 2020 8:37 am Reply with quote

Thank you, kind Sir!

I did actually get challenged to a duel once before on these forums, many years ago. We discovered that the only country in the world where dueling with pistols is actuallly legal is Uruguay.

Sunrise tomorrow in Fray Bentos is at 0731 local.

 
dr.bob
1347498.  Wed May 06, 2020 8:42 am Reply with quote

Alexander Howard wrote:
I have observed that you can measure how seriously a country takes the free-market economy by counting the number of once-luxury items that are now found in the households even of the poorest,


And how many of them need to use food banks.

Alexander Howard wrote:
and you can measure how seriously a country takes socialism by counting the number of bodies.


That's a good point. Healthcare systems founded on socialist principles, such as we have here in the UK, generally do a much better job when measured against basic metrics of healthcare outcomes, such as infant mortality, compared with countries with healthcare systems run along free-market lines, such as the USA.

Those noted communists at the CIA will tell you that the infant mortality rate in the UK is 4.3 deaths before the age of 1 per 1,000 births, while the USA endures an infant mortality rate of 5.8 deaths per 1,000 births. This is despite the fact that the USA currently spends 16.9% of its GDP on healthcare, compared to just 9.8% in the UK.

So I think you're right: if you want to know if a country embraces free-market principles more fully than socialist ones, you just need to count the dead babies.

 
Efros
1347501.  Wed May 06, 2020 9:02 am Reply with quote

how much of that 16.9% disappears as profits though.

 

Page 231 of 236
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 230, 231, 232 ... 234, 235, 236  Next

All times are GMT - 5 Hours


Display posts from previous:   

Search Search Forums

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group