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Can't find Pilgrim Fathers persecution topic

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bordonbert
1103913.  Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:46 am Reply with quote

I remember a question being posed which gave the information that the Pilgrim Fathers traveling to the American colonies had NOT done so to escape persecution. I have always doubted the claim that this had been so knowing the American propensity for rewriting history to suit its own position, but I still come across references to intolerance being touted as the truth all across Europe including England. I do not doubt the European case but would expect that cases of English intolerance would not be widespread and would be frowned upon officially.

I am sure I recall Stephen Fry saying that no truthful references to specific instances could be found but I find some are quoted in other sites. For example, the cases of Brian Cansfield and John Rogers are common.

As an aside, I also have a feeling that during the same topic Stephen pointed out that the turkeys eaten during the first winter by the Pilgrim Fathers had actually been taken with them having been raised in Norfolk!

Can anyone point me to the true information please?

 
PDR
1103919.  Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:09 am Reply with quote

No, but the Turkeys were bootiful!

:0)

AIUI they went because of intolerence, but it was their own inability to tolerate the lax, secular, free-wheeling ways of the the general population rather than the country being too proscriptive towards their particular brands of invisible-friend-addiction.

PDR

 
swot
1103924.  Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:41 am Reply with quote

https://sites.google.com/site/qitranscripts/transcripts/4x13

Series four episode thirteen: Fry says the Pilgrims took turkeys across on the Mayflower.

 
Stefan Linnemann
1103929.  Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:00 am Reply with quote

I'll reinterate the facts, you'll have to look for sources yourself using those.

The Pilgrims emigrated to the Republic of the United Netherlands in 1606 and 1607, to Amsterdam and Leiden, but after rougly a year there, found life too hard and the influences of others on their children too great, so they went back home to find passage to the colonies to find an easier life with less (read "no") (religious/cultural) diversity.

The English language Wiki appears quite factual on the issue:
Pillgrim fathers

Perhaps you can find what you are looking for from there.

Stefan.

 
bordonbert
1104046.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:37 am Reply with quote

Hohoho! Guess there had to be a Bernard Matthews joke in there didn't there?

My own understanding was always that we were a pretty easy going society. Elizabeth was known for her insistence on tolerance as long as it didn't compromise loyalty to the state and it really looks as though James I/VI tried to carry on in her tradition in England. He even seems to have tried to act as peacemaker in Europe with steps like the marriages of his children.

This whole issue looks as though the Pilgrim Fathers themselves were as intolerant as any other religious group of their time, no better no worse. What is the most depressing aspect of this sort of issue to me is the way everyone nowadays just accepts the "Hollywoodisation" of our history by America always warped to make themselves look better. When are we going to make a stand for ourselves? Our younger generation is accepting this stuff as fact without question!

Anyway, thanks for the responses and Happy Thanksgiving! (Oh yes, just give it a little time, you'll be celebrating it soon.)

 
'yorz
1104050.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:59 am Reply with quote

Reading the Wiki page on Pilgrim Fathers I came across this sentence:

"A sex change was known only to parties in England who chose not to inform the larger group".

I had to read that again to make sure.
A most unfortunate youlgreave.

 
swot
1104062.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:26 am Reply with quote

bordonbert wrote:


Anyway, thanks for the responses and Happy Thanksgiving! (Oh yes, just give it a little time, you'll be celebrating it soon.)


We already have Black Friday.

 
PDR
1104069.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:38 am Reply with quote

swot wrote:
bordonbert wrote:


Anyway, thanks for the responses and Happy Thanksgiving! (Oh yes, just give it a little time, you'll be celebrating it soon.)


We already have Black Friday.


Shame on you Swot - it's "Friday of Colour" and don't you forget it...

PDR

 
Big Martin
1104077.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:10 am Reply with quote

I got pumpkin pie the other evening. Was Texan s-i-l's belated Thanksgiving offering as she had to work late last Thursday and it didn't get made until this week.

 
swot
1104080.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:38 am Reply with quote

PDR wrote:
swot wrote:
bordonbert wrote:


Anyway, thanks for the responses and Happy Thanksgiving! (Oh yes, just give it a little time, you'll be celebrating it soon.)


We already have Black Friday.


Shame on you Swot - it's "Friday of Colour" and don't you forget it...

PDR


:-)

Mr Swot's employers have a free canteen. One of the meals on offer last Thursday was a turkey burger, which they called a Thanksgiving Turkey burger.

 
PDR
1104081.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:45 am Reply with quote

In what form did this turkeyburger give its thanks?

PDR

 
bordonbert
1104086.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:38 am Reply with quote

PDR?

"I yam so happy to have you gobble-gobble-gobble me up. It's good to know that wattle beakum of me is not so fowl."

(groan!)

 
Jenny
1104090.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:49 am Reply with quote

bordonbert wrote:
PDR?

"I yam so happy to have you gobble-gobble-gobble me up. It's good to know that wattle beakum of me is not so fowl."

(groan!)


Wince. Groan. You'll fit in very well on this forum so welcome :-)

 
swot
1104093.  Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:01 am Reply with quote

http://instantrimshot.com/

 

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