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Will Master Fry please point out this "Holland" of

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Stefan Linnemann
73769.  Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:20 pm Reply with quote

While enjoying one of the last episodes of the last series, Stephen Fry used the word "Holland". He should come to the front of the class and indicate this place on a blind map of the world, and recite the complete list of official names of the state he indicates throughout history. It's not that many, after all. In doing so, he might even realise an interesting fact or two, and expand his erudition by yet another another cubic-inch-day.

With kind regards,
a Dutchman called Stefan.

 
djgordy
73772.  Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:36 pm Reply with quote

Most British people call the Netherlands 'Holland'. I find it very irritating and I'm not even Dutch.

 
Stefan Linnemann
73775.  Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:12 pm Reply with quote

Most foreigners, do, and numerous Dutch people, as well, All of our football-fans, for starters. Probably the majority.

And I even live in what used to be Holland.

Stefan.

 
swot
73812.  Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:09 am Reply with quote

I'll admit to being incredibly dense about geography and to calling 'Holland' 'The Netherlands'. Honestly I thought they were two names for the same place. Can someone please explain to me why that's wrong? Ta.

 
Andrew
73819.  Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:54 am Reply with quote

I thought they were 2 names for the same country too...Did I not go to Holland last August then cause that's what I've been telling people!

 
suze
73821.  Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:01 am Reply with quote

Strictly speaking, the country is called the Netherlands, while Holland is one part of the Netherlands.

But - even in the Netherlands - it's quite common for people to use Holland to mean the whole country. Most of the major cities - Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Den Haag - are in Holland, but Utrecht, for instance, isn't.

There's also a part of Lincolnshire - around Boston and Spalding - called Holland.

 
Stefan Linnemann
73831.  Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:36 am Reply with quote

"Holland" is the nameof a former county of the Low Countries (which is indeed just another, unofficial name for roughly the same region), which was split in two the same time as the Netherlands turned Royal by choice, after the French were defeated. So, calling the Netherlands Holland is about as clever as calling England "Essex". or similar.

The reason it happens so often is, that in the 16th century, when the Dutch ruled the waves, most of the Dutch ships came from the county/province of Holland, to whit, the port of Amsterdam, once the buiest port in the world. So the Dutchmen one met abroad usually came from "Holland", since "the Republic" still consisted of partially indepedant provinces. Provincial identification was still more marked than national idenification. And the Netherlands were best known as "the Republic". We only turned Royal after the Americans turned Republican.

Why? One reason might be, that Bomaparte, after having installed several "land guardians" in succesion, hoped to finally get some serious taxation going of the Netherlands by installing hi brother Louis as king. Louis then promptly chose the Dutch side of refusal, rather than his brothers. That still makes me chuckle.

Stefan.

 
Andrew
73839.  Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:33 pm Reply with quote

I sit corrected. Although I think lots of other people need to be taught this :-)

 
Stefan Linnemann
73844.  Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:38 pm Reply with quote

Andrew wrote:
I sit corrected. Although I think lots of other people need to be taught this :-)


It's one of my pet peeves, I'm afraid. Hence my disgust, when my hero SF Himself committed this foul. And is once more going to commit in the repeat still to come on BBC2. I mean, if any Brit was bound to know the difference, whose name would top your list?

Hence the penitence I requested, even though I myself would fail at listing all the official names the Netherlands claimed or were given. (Deliberately excluing kolonies, as they are not the Low Countries.)

    * The Republic of the seven United Netherlands
    * The Republic of the United Netherlands
    * The Batavian Republic.
    * The Kingdom of the Batavian Netherlands (?)
    * The Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Stefan.

 
djgordy
73846.  Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:20 pm Reply with quote

 
Stefan Linnemann
73873.  Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:15 pm Reply with quote

Ah, thanks for that clarifying, allthough not entirely correct map.

've takn the liberty of saving it and maknig a couple of corrections.



But well done for the effort of T.M. LLC.

Stefan.

 
QI Individual
73885.  Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:39 am Reply with quote

Why take the trouble to edit it when it's so easy to find a better one? Just take your pick

This one from Wikipedia looks a lot better.

 
Stefan Linnemann
73889.  Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:13 am Reply with quote

Hmm, yes, and its even got the provincial capitals orrectly indicated (red).

Cheers!

Stefan.

 
dr.bob
73891.  Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:29 am Reply with quote

Stefan Linnemann wrote:
So, calling the Netherlands Holland is about as clever as calling England "Essex". or similar.


Or calling the UK "England".

Since that gets my goat so much, I shall never refer to the Netherlands as Holland again (even though it has half the number of syllables and is therefore quicker to say)

 
Stefan Linnemann
73892.  Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:37 am Reply with quote

dr.bob wrote:

Or calling the UK "England".

Since that gets my goat so much, I shall never refer to the Netherlands as Holland again (even though it has half the number of syllables and is therefore quicker to say)


Just so. And for those of you who are thinking: "What's the difference, anyway? Can't be bothered with that.", I charge you to fom now on start calling each and every Scotsman you meet "Englishman", untill you concede the point. You can write us from hopital when you do.
If you can write. Otherwise, just have a nurse write it down for you.

If you can talk.

Stefan.

 

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